Kim (00:02.224)
Dr. Bree, I never call you Dr. Bree. I usually just call you Bree. Dr. Bree -Ann Grogan, welcome to the show. I'm excited to have this conversation, even though you and I talk all the time, but I wanted to share your amazingness with my listeners because I value you so much as a friend and a colleague and the work that you do and you help so many people and I'm honored to be in the space with you. So thank you for joining us.
Bri (00:25.326)
I am so honored to be here, Kim. I just love you and I'm grateful to be here. Thank you. Let's dive into this juicy goodness.
Kim (00:34.543)
So I was trying to remember, I mean I somehow online I saw and it was it was your book I think that first led me to you. So I bought your book and I started following your work and you I didn't know initially but you were living in Germany at the time that I found you. So I guess before we kind of go down the path I want to know a little bit about what led you first to become a pelvic floor physical therapist.
and then we'll talk about you moving to Germany and what that meant for you. But just a little bit, what led you down the path of physical therapy and then adding on the additional training of pelvic floor.
Bri (01:15.47)
Yeah. So physical therapy was something that I wanted to do actually in high school. I knew that I wanted to be involved in, you know, somehow I was, I was interested in medicine. I was interested in the body. I was interested in movement. Even though I wasn't particularly athletic in high school, I still loved, I loved moving. I loved moving my body. I loved running.
So I knew that I wanted a really active career and physical therapy was what I started going to college for. But then I actually got sidetracked a bit and went down the path of nursing. I went to nursing school for a couple of years and I only bring that up because it was so incredibly valuable for me in really bringing a holistic approach to the work that I do now.
The nursing school that I went to was great for holistic nursing care. That's something they really talked about in the programming. And also I did some special clubs and activities that were about holistic health and holistic nursing. And so.
That was just such a cool way to really have that in my background, in my mindset as I then transitioned back to physical therapy. So I came full circle and I went back to, you know, finished with a different degree than my bachelor's of science in nursing. I finished with health sciences degree and then went to physical therapy school. And after PT school, I graduated as a doctor of physical therapy and went into geriatrics.
And that really wasn't right for me in the end. In a nutshell, it just wasn't right for me. And I became pregnant early on in that career and decided, you know, women's health has always been an interest of mine. And now that I'm pregnant, I just, I don't know, I want to dive into this world. So I went through the training.
Bri (03:09.678)
went through my own pelvic floor issues, went through prolapse. And I was like, wow, now I'm even more invested than ever because not only is it a fascination for my clients and the people I love to work with, but it's also something I've experienced myself. So that's my pelvic health career in a nutshell. I was working in a clinical setting with outpatient physical therapy, all types of outpatient.
but mostly I was focused on pelvic health, working with women and men in Portland, Oregon for a couple of years. And then my family and I moved to Germany. And when that happened, it shifted everything. And I actually didn't work at all for a little while. And then pelvic health found me again. It couldn't stay away. I couldn't stay away from it.
Kim (03:52.014)
Well, I'm glad you didn't stay away. And that's, yeah, that was around about that time that I, again, I found your book and, and found you like I started, I joined your newsletter and you started to really go hard with YouTube and, and providing amazing free education to people. So step back, what what led you to wanting to write a book? When did you write that book?
Bri (04:19.566)
So I wrote that book in 2015, which is crazy. That's a long time ago now. No, and a lot has changed. And honestly, if I could go back, I love, I'm really proud of the book that I wrote. It has a really holistic whole person approach. Even, you know, back in 2015, I was writing about that. However, I sometimes hesitate recommending it because I'm like, cringy, you know, there's a few things that I'm like, gosh, I wish I wish I could change that. But yes, I,
Kim (04:24.298)
I know.
Bri (04:49.472)
I wrote that in 2015 after I had started dipping back into the world of pelvic health in Germany, but it was an entirely different approach to working with people instead of working with people in the clinic because in Germany it's a bit different. I didn't want to work clinically in Germany. So I had decided to do more of a outreach approach and that's really where YouTube came in and the book.
is I'm like, you know, I'm really gonna more spread the word about pelvic health and really talk about it in a public way to raise awareness. And again, that's where YouTube kind of started growing around 2015 and the book came into play as well.
Kim (05:32.936)
Yeah. So when you as you were you were creating that content, you as you say, you transition from this clinical space where you were working one on one to now an online space where you're talking to a camera and you're not really sure how many people are on the other side listening and watching you. And that's a whole shift. But I think watching what has happened in the evolution and even from the beginning videos to where they are now, it's been an interesting process to watch of how things have
fine -tuned in the different kind of practices and philosophies that you've brought in. So what would you say, I know what I've witnessed, but what would you say has changed from when you started to now?
Bri (06:13.358)
Ooh, like on YouTube? Primarily?
Kim (06:16.039)
Yeah, and just and even as you say, like that when you look back in the book, there are things that you would that you say are now cringy. Like what what has changed from what you used to say and teach to what you do now?
Bri (06:21.806)
Yeah.
Bri (06:26.862)
Yeah. And I'm probably being hard on myself honestly about the book. It's really great. It really is. I am. But I think really what has changed the most is in general, I approached my work and pelvic health in a much more physical body -based structural mechanical way than I do now. And I definitely, absolutely.
Kim (06:31.27)
You are.
Bri (06:52.142)
structural approach to pelvic health. And by structural, I mean like really looking at the body, the muscles, specific exercises, giving people specific exercise prescriptions and lifestyle prescriptions, ways to move your body, body mechanics, things like that. Incredibly important. I am not dismissing that at all, but I've really brought in a lot more with energy, emotions, our relationship.
with our pelvic health challenge. I mean, that's a huge piece of it is how do we feel about these pelvic floor issues that we have? And if it's something that is very, very terrifying or we're angry or resentful or just scared to death or hyper obsessed or fixated on the pelvic health challenge, then that really needs to be addressed as well, along with those more body -based physical structural approaches.
So that's, I think the main change. Yeah.
Kim (07:49.348)
Yeah. Yeah. And how would you what are your recommendations for somebody in that? I've been there. The hyper focused hyper vigilant on checking, like obsessed about symptoms, feeling resentful, feeling angry, why me compared it like all of those that roller coaster of ups and down emotions, especially given that symptoms change all the time. What are some of the
Bri (07:56.366)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (08:18.179)
ways or recommendations that you have to help people through that process.
Bri (08:21.966)
Yeah. Well, I mean, the first thing is realize that I don't want anyone to think this is like me gaslighting them and saying, it's, you know, it's your fault that you're having these issues. You know, you shouldn't be feeling that way. And, you know, you're just causing your own issues because you're stressed or you're scared. That's not it. However, it this is happening, you know, this is happening. It's a part of the sensations that we're feeling, the potentially even heightened sensations that we're feeling of the issues we're dealing with. So.
we need to figure out how to work with it. And I really recommend to people a couple of things. The first thing I recommend is if you are in situations where you find yourself going down Google rabbit holes or Instagram rabbit holes, where you're just really, really caught up in all of the information that's out there, there's so much information and some of it is wonderful and some of it is not. Some of it is very scary. Some of it's inaccurate and incorrect.
And so some of it is uplifting and some of it is really discouraging and despairing. And there's a lot of challenging things that are out there. And so I encourage people to stop if they find themselves spiraling in Google rabbit holes, Google death spirals, or even in forums or support support groups or things like that, that are actually leaving them feeling very heavy and contracted and scared or discouraged in any way.
Those are not places for you to be right now. So that's the first thing. And the other thing is, I have this phrase that I don't know if it makes sense to other people, cause honestly, I haven't gotten any feedback from anyone about this. I haven't had anyone be like, Brie, that was amazing. But for me, I like this phrase, which is focus and release, focus and release. It's kind of like catch and release, like catch and release fishing, which I'm not a Fisher person, but anyway.
You know, catch and release. If I was a Fisher person, I would be a catch and release Fisher person, but focus and release. What I mean by that is I'm not sitting here saying that you can just, you know, positive affirmation your symptoms away or meditate your symptoms away. You know, that's not at all. I'm not saying you don't have to do work and you don't have to seek support or help. You do.
Bri (10:48.174)
But it's important to first of all, kind of put your blinders on, choose a person or two or three to follow. And then just don't look at the other stuff for a little while. It doesn't have to be forever, but just for now, focus on a person or two or three that you follow. And hopefully one of them is a physical therapist you're seeing in person, you know, and then maybe somebody or a couple of three, two people, whatever on online. And then just...
Put your horse blinders on so you're not getting distracted by all the other noise. Focus on those and also actually do the work they're encouraging you to do. So don't just collect a bunch of Instagram posts or quotes or exercises or YouTube videos, et cetera. Actually do them. And then release, relax, let it go. Be like, okay, I did my exercises for the day. I did what my PT told me to do. I did.
You know, Kim's program, I did my buff muff app for the day, whatever it may be. You know, I did my thing and then go live your life and enjoy and know that it might not be perfect and where you want it to be right now, but know that you're on your path. You're on your way. So you're focusing and then you're releasing and letting go and getting back to what you love. Because honestly, that's, it sounds kind of cliche or kind of like trite or airy fairy, but it's really true that what you focus on expands. And so where you place your attention.
will expand and we want to ultimately be, of course, focusing on our issue and treating it and taking care of our bodies and our pelvic health and doing the work. But then we want to focus, we want to release and direct our attention in places that are a little bit more uplifting and joyful than that.
Kim (12:34.112)
I love that so much. And I often will say as much as I think there is a place for the support groups, I do feel like I always say mind your nervous system because they they can you can find some people you can realize you're not alone. People share resources and maybe something will be there. But sitting there grasping at straws, hoping there's one thing that's going to come and save the day amongst all of the as you said, the word heavy.
Bri (12:41.806)
Yeah.
Kim (13:02.88)
and like the weight of carrying other people's experiences with you and bringing that on board of everything that you're already managing can really be not as helpful as we want it to be. So yeah, I love that. And I also love the advice of picking one, two or three, one being your in -person pelvic floor PT and then some other people. And that's why you and I have so many people who, you know,
They follow me and I also follow Dr. Bree and then people in your community I also follow Kim and when we did the retreat together, a lot of people were there. Some people knew you, some people knew me and some people have been following both of us because we were very aligned yet we also have differences and there's never just one person I don't think but narrow your focus initially. So focus as you say, learn and be consistent, do the work consistently do the work.
and then you can start to move on. I think that's such valuable information. I love it.
Bri (14:02.83)
Yeah. And because when you consistently do the work and when you really allow yourself to dive into...
a couple people's teachings or one person's teachings or whatever it is, you can really embody what it is that you're learning. You're not scattered in a billion different directions. Your mind isn't scattered in a billion different places. You can really take it in and feel it in your own body because that's the ultimate goal is for you to be able to truly embody what you're learning so that you can know what's best for you and so that you can know the next step and you can know how to progress your exercises.
you can know what feels right, what feels wrong, what feels safe, what needs to be modified. And the only way to do that is to really do the work, do the work and not be too scattered.
Kim (14:52.638)
that's you know as you say when you you know and I'm guilty of this too you you like that's a cool exercise that's a cool smoothie recipe that's good and you've got all these things saved how many recipes have I actually made how many times have I done all of them but if you're following one person and you are consistent with one practice you know you will you will as you say you are you're kind of embodied and you are doing the work of that and you will know
Bri (14:59.118)
Right.
Kim (15:18.589)
if it's working for you or not. If you are just haphazardly trying random things all the time, you may not see results and you also may not even know if something's working, which of all of these things is the thing that's working. So narrowing the focus I think is so helpful. So you write your book, you start your YouTube channel, your, what is your YouTube? Like you have a ginormous YouTube channel.
Bri (15:30.446)
Exactly.
Bri (15:43.726)
Yeah, you know, I'm really excited about it. I have, it's been slow growth, man. Some of these, some of these YouTube videos were right. I was very consistent over the years and we're now to about 450 ,000 subscribers, which feels really great. Yeah, it feels really good to know that I'm helping people around the world who may not have access to care. Yeah.
Kim (15:49.181)
but you've done the work consistently.
Kim (15:58.108)
That is amazing.
Kim (16:05.916)
Yeah, yeah, but you like, I saw you every single week, there was a new video, I was on your like, you were very consistent in showing up with it was it's remarkable. And so I watched that all happen. And that's where we started connecting more and we started to talk to each other more online and sharing one another's we were talking about REC to SEAL together and bring anyway, we've we've aligned and then now you move back to the United States.
Bri (16:10.414)
Yep.
Kim (16:36.027)
Is it two, three years ago now? Two years, yeah. Yeah, and when you came back and I realized that you're in Bend, Oregon, which is not far from me in Vancouver, BC, we were like, well, we should somehow meet up together and we were both craving to do more things in person. Obviously the pandemic was an instigator for that too. And then we ended up planning a retreat together. But another thing that has happened is you have transitioned back now to in -person.
Bri (16:37.87)
Two years ago this June. Yes. yeah. Mm -hmm.
Kim (17:06.203)
So you sort of left that kind of not necessarily by choice. You went to Germany for your husband's work, not practicing, now you've come back. And what was the calling that wanted you to come back to that in person? And what does it look like now compared to when you were doing in person before?
Bri (17:11.79)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Bri (17:25.038)
Yeah, well, I love this because one calling, now that I'm kind of putting it together in my mind, is one calling to go back to in -person work was that coming back to my home state of Oregon from our 12 years in Germany, I was like, my gosh, I'm coming back to Oregon where Tammy Lynn Kent.
lives and works. And Tammy Lincant is, for anyone who doesn't know, she's a physical therapist who is the founder of a program called, or a body of work called Holistic Pelvic Care.
And she's also the author of several books that are wonderful, Wild Feminine, Wild Creative, Wild Mothering. And she's just been someone I've looked up to for a long time and I've wanted to take one of her courses to learn holistic pelvic care, her style of treatment. And so coming back to Oregon, I thought, my gosh, I'm gonna be in.
Tammy's area, I'm gonna be able to take her course. And so I did as soon as we came back, literally, literally before we left Germany, I'd signed up to take her in -person program. And so when we came back, I took the program and I thought, well, I gotta start using this. And so I started to see people in person again and it's been such a blessing and such a gift to actually touch human.
humans again and not just behind a screen. It's so soul -sucking to me to constantly be behind a screen. Honestly, like I'm just being honest here. I love the benefits of online work and on it. Actually, interestingly, I toyed with an in -person practice here where I was at a clinic in office and I was working for myself still, but I was actually traveling to an office space and seeing people in person.
Bri (19:13.23)
And that didn't last for too long to do that on a consistent, regular basis because I have gotten so used to the online world with this very flexible schedule. Very much, I work like crazy, but I work from home and it's really nice. And so I don't mean to belittle the online world because I love it. I love, I love it, love it, love it.
But I've also really enjoyed kind of touching back into in -person work. And even though I'm no longer doing that weekly clinical practice that I started, that I experimented with here in Bend, I'm still seeing people occasionally in person in other settings. And I'm actually gonna be seeing some people coming up for a little pop -up pelvic care thing. And I get to see people and work with people in person at our retreats, and it's great.
Kim (20:01.499)
I think pop -up is a really good name now that you've just said it. Like my business marketing mind is like, that's kind of catchy. Okay, let's go.
Bri (20:04.238)
Yeah.
Yeah, pop -up pelvic care.
Kim (20:12.442)
Yeah. So a word that you've used several times, including what Tammy Lynn uses is holistic. So what does that word mean to you and what does holistic pelvic care look like?
Bri (20:21.582)
Yeah.
Bri (20:27.406)
So holistic to me, I think it's kind of interesting because when you look up holistic online, it's usually spelled holistic, H -O -L -I -S -T -I -C. However, some people spell it W -H -O -L -I -S -T -I -C. So whole, like a whole person. And to me, that's what I really think of. Sometimes I'll even write it holistic with a W at the beginning, or I'll just write whole person.
Whole person care. I mean there's a billion ways to say it but basically you're looking at every aspect of the individual not just their diagnosis or the exact body part that's having an issue. You're looking at the whole person. So mind, body, spirit and you don't... Spirit doesn't necessarily mean religious although, you know, spiritual can mean many things to many people but energy...
everything, like the whole thing that everything that contributes to us is part of our health. It's part of how we live and present in this world. And so we knew we do need to look at all of it. Nutrition, you know, so many elements that can contribute to a person's health and the way they walk through this world. So that's holistic to me. Tammy Kent's holistic pelvic care is, I'll just touch on that briefly because it's actually a specific type of.
of trademarked, a process of helping people in a therapist -client relationship as a provider to client. So Tammy has a specific way that she teaches to work with people in a pelvic care setting. So if somebody says that they are doing holistic pelvic care TM trademark, that means that they've been through Tammy Lynn's courses. So I have been through her coursework and I...
have adjusted it a little bit, modified things to make kind of my own way, because that's just what I do. And so I definitely use so much of Tammy's beautiful work and training in my work, but I've expanded to bring in a lot more embodiment, work, somatic movement, practices, and really love to make my sessions quite lengthy with clients, you know, at least two hours, if not two or three days.
Bri (22:51.086)
that I'm working with people in a one -on -one container.
Kim (22:55.031)
Wow. So two to three hours is lengthy, but two to three days. So that's a whole, that's like a little mini retreat with you. So what does, are they coming and staying in town or where, like, how does that, what does that look like?
Bri (23:00.814)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yep. Yep.
Bri (23:10.862)
Yeah. Yeah. So at this point, they stay in town. People who come and see me, they stay in town, not at my home. And then we do work together. That's various locations. I mean, we do work together in pelvic floor therapy type of work. So treatment directly to their pelvic floor. But then we also do movement practices. Sometimes we go on hikes. Like there's...
All sorts of things that come into the work we do together, it's completely tailored to their needs because again, holistic pelvic health means we must look at the whole person and every person is completely different, completely different. So they're not just a muscle fiber that we're looking at that, you know, generally looks similar from person to person, a muscle fiber. Although even muscles are variable between people and the anatomy of the human body, anatomy is quite variable. You know, there's some differences in people.
So even that's different, but we're not just looking at the anatomy and the muscles, we're looking at the whole person. So everyone's treatment has to be completely individualized. We bring in food too. Like we eat together, we have meals together, and it's so important to nourish yourself when you're healing. So that's a big piece of my treatment too.
Kim (24:25.205)
Yeah. You talk about having four pillars and nourishment. So food, nutrition being one, movement, mind, body, and body awareness. I think, is that, am I, did I say those correctly? Yeah. What, and you've used the word somatic and embodiment, which not everyone is familiar with what those terms would be. So what, what,
Bri (24:39.566)
Yeah, yeah.
Kim (24:51.125)
where would somatic and embodiment fall under in terms of your pillars and what do those two words mean?
Bri (24:57.422)
So those are going to fall under like mind body, that mind body connection and also body awareness. So really learning how to feel your body. A lot of us are very disconnected and that's for many, many reasons. I mean, that can be from trauma. It can be from pain. It can be from simply the fact that we've been trained from young ages to not follow the impulses of our body. You know, don't cry. You're not hurt. That doesn't hurt. You know,
Don't throw a tantrum, whatever they may be. We've been really trained, sometimes for good reason, sometimes a little overly trained, away from feeling into our body. And so we've gotten really good at thinking about things and talking about things and processing things a little bit more in our head, in our minds. But dropping into the body can feel scary for some people. It can feel completely foreign to some people. It can feel numb and very disconnected for some people for a number of reasons.
And a lot of people really don't trust their body. They don't trust that they'll know what to do. And I think that's something that I've really developed over the years in my own personal life. I've had a lot of health issues that I've dealt with. And of course I've sought medical care. And in some cases I've used the medication or whatever it was that I was given. But in other cases that has not been helpful at all. And I've had to seek my own solutions through my body.
And through learning to trust my own impulses of what I know is going, is working and what I know is not. And again, there's limits to this. Of course we want, we want outside help. We want medical help. We want to consult with experts, but I just always want to remind people that they're also the expert in their own body. Like I want to empower people to drop in more. And so that self -awareness and mind body connection,
is really all, it's developed. It can be developed through tools such as somatic movement, which is one way to describe it is soma means body. And so somatic movement is moving from within. So it's movement that is impulse from within, not necessarily choreographed by somebody else or prescribed in sets and reps and et cetera, by an outside source. It's coming from within you.
Bri (27:22.798)
So that type of movement is something that I've just, I don't know, innately practiced, I guess, since starting yoga when I was 16. You know, I've sort of been doing and playing with that, but especially creating my own YouTube routines. Like nobody is telling me what to do. Like I'm making it up. And so innately, I was kind of using some somatic tools and embodying even embodiment, by the way, to go back to that.
Embodiment is, one way to describe it is dropping into your body, out of your head and thoughts and mind and into your body. So using tools of dropping in, getting calm, meditation. Sometimes that can have people transcending out of their body, but for me, I've done a lot of moving meditation where I'm really present in the moment. I go on a walk and I really notice everything around me.
This has been a big practice for me because anxiety and depression have been massive issues in my life. And so I've used these tools to help myself. And these tools of somatic movement and embodiment have helped me learn how to trust myself and ultimately heal myself from a number of my own conditions. And they're so powerful for pelvic health. Did I, I feel like I might've gotten a little off track there, but okay. Okay.
Kim (28:42.638)
Yeah.
No, you wove right, you answered it, it was all good, it was perfect. When we did the retreat together, and this is part of what watching an evolution of you online is, was more of, I would say, this somatic movement and a dance element. And that's always been something for me that has felt, I like dancing when I'm by myself. Like when I hear a good little tune and when you say, let it come from within, I want to move.
Bri (28:48.334)
Alright, good.
Kim (29:14.736)
But I never feel like I move the way that I think that I look like. You know, I think I look like I'm an amazing dancer. But when I watch other people compared to me, I'm like, no, no, I'm not moving at all like that. And I'm very rigid and I'm very much the sets and the reps and the structure and the routine. And doing the retreat and having, we have a little dance party at the end was, you know, you had, you created your playlist and it was all very type of music. And some was.
everybody resonates with something different but it was very cool to watch all of us who felt really awkward, I would say the majority of people felt really awkward even though we'd known each other for the whole week now, kind of come out of the shell and there wasn't there was nobody sitting down everybody was up doing some sort of movement and it was some of you know we weren't all amazing and I always say I'm always trying to channel the I see this amazing freedom in you the way that you move that
I that I'm trying to harness in myself and try to do more of that. I have another good friend of mine, Alice Brace Girl, who's been on this podcast. She's the founder of BellyFit, and she's another person who she has this fluidity to her movement that I really aspire to. And I think that, you know, when we think about from a pelvic health perspective, we we think in the pelvis, we think what is the magic exercise?
What is the safe list? What is the not safe list? And it's not about that. It's about finding freedom in movement, diversity in the movement, and building that trust and overcoming that fear that so many people are held back with. Right? So, yeah.
Bri (30:54.862)
Right. Yes. I mean, and it really comes to the pelvis because I believe that so much of dance and fluid movement comes from a fluid flexible spine that all of us can have. We can. It does require working with it and practicing it, you know, but we can all have that. And the health of our spine determines so much, but spinal movement and pelvic movement, it comes from our pelvis so much of our, of our
dancing motion comes from the hips and the pelvis and it requires safety. It requires safety. The pelvis is one of our centers of safety, our root chakra. This is a big safety center in our body and if we don't feel safe, we're gonna feel stiff and we're going to judge ourselves. We might, you know, we might find ourselves kind of judging others too and not to be mean, but it's just sort of what we do as humans. We kind of...
categorize things and compare things and where do we stack up in this lineup, you know? And I think that releasing judgment is really, really key.
And a starting place for releasing judgment is releasing judgment of yourself, which requires safety in yourself, establishing a sense of safety and compassion for yourself first. So it's kind of like relationships with other people. They always say, start with yourself. You know, if you're looking for a new love relationship or a better partnership, it's like, start with yourself. And the same with health and dance even. It's like, just focus on you. Like, focus on you.
Kim (32:08.171)
Yeah.
Kim (32:21.995)
Mm -hmm.
Bri (32:30.318)
And that requires establishing some safety in your system. Like I am safe to do this. I'm safe to experiment and practice with myself. Embodiment, it's about being in my body. It's not what other people are doing or what other people are looking at, but it does require practice with yourself first. Yeah.
Kim (32:47.019)
Yep, yep. Yes, I heard a message in there to myself to let go of the judgment of my stiffness.
Bri (32:50.986)
You're amazing too. I got to say you're amazing and everyone Kim has a song that is fantastic and it will be played. She told me she promised me that when this song comes on, she becomes, she transforms into a rock star. And so this song will be played at our next event together and I will be seeing her dance on stage.
Kim (33:14.314)
Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, it's funny. It's on my playlist, obviously, when I'm working on every time and I have filmed a couple of times I've sent you I'm like, I'm listening to this song and I send you a message. But yeah, no, I appreciate that. It's not a side that I have cultivated. It just has not been and learning more about you and your like the ecstatic dance that you go to and the movements that you bring into some of your practices is really, really helping me.
Bri (33:20.782)
Yes!
Kim (33:42.793)
So thank you for that. But I want to talk a little bit about the retreat that we did and are doing again this year. When I was reading about your pillars, I feel like we covered those pillars really well. And one of them was the nourishment and nutrition piece. And we didn't do that. We were really, really fortunate to have been hosting at this organic farm where all of the food is grown and
Bri (33:58.574)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kim (34:12.552)
made on site and we didn't have to cook it, we didn't have to think about the menu, it was just done for us and this beautiful bounty of food would be would be laid out for us for all of our meals and there were so many people that use the term I feel so nourished, I feel cared for and I'm pooping better right like all the all the things that and some of it is they feel relaxed so that's going to help they're away from their day -to -day stressors that's going to help but also the what we're putting into our bodies.
is so vital. What are your, like what would you guide people to in terms of when you say nutrition is one of your pillars, what do you cover in that realm?
Bri (34:54.222)
Yeah, so it's really tough because it is so individual. Everybody's so different about even their preferences just down to what they like. I mean, if you're being forced to eat kale and you hate kale, then kale is not going to be any good for you. You know, you're better off eating ice cream than kale if you're just hating every bite you put in your face. So preference, like personal preferences there, then you have, you know, ethical and...
moral concerns and preferences such as different ways that you want to feed yourself, religious, you know, there's so many different things out there aside from actual, you know, food sensitivities or food allergies that you have in your body when you eat certain things that causes inflammation and everybody's different in that regard too. So I don't, I don't give general like blanket.
advice to people in my programs and when I'm working with them. But I am a huge proponent of eat clean, move every day. So that's what I say at the end of every YouTube video. And of course, everybody knows this. It's very basic. This is not rocket science here, but sometimes we do need that reminder. I do too. I love chips. I love crackers. I love, you know, gluten free goodie things that are completely processed and ridiculous. And I think there's a time and a place for all of that.
But I sometimes have to remind myself, yeah, eat clean, move every day. So it's basically coaching people to crowd out the, and I got this from Jessica Drummond, who's the founder of the Integrative Women's Health Institute, which I was in one of her very first classes of her women's health and nutrition coach certification program way back when. I mean, it was probably 2014 or 15 that I went through that, but she always talks about crowding out the,
bad stuff. I don't really like using the word bad, but you know, crowding out the processed food or the things that are inflammatory to your body, whatever it is, crowding it out with good stuff, healthy stuff that's unprocessed, you know, from the earth as much as possible, minimal ingredients as much as possible, crowding out the bad stuff with that good stuff and the stuff you like too. You want to enjoy it. You want it to taste good. And that's why I love the farm so much that we, for our retreat is they made
Bri (37:08.846)
healthy, simple food tastes so good. Like everybody just loved it. And it was beautiful too. It was really pretty. Yeah.
Kim (37:13.185)
my God. Extraordinary.
Kim (37:18.597)
Yeah, it was a whole, you know, when you think about digestion being it starts in the mind, like just the smells, the sight, like everything, everything about what they did was just exceptional. And I can't wait to go back.
Bri (37:23.758)
rights.
Bri (37:32.502)
Yeah. Right. And it doesn't have to, I mean, they spent a lot of time. I mean, of course, like they spent time making this exceptional, beautifully presented, healthy food. However, it was, it was simple. And I think that we can all take steps toward making our own simple, healthy food a little more exceptional, even just by sitting down at the table when we eat it and not rushing and eating it in the car. I've been guilty of it. Totally. I do it now and then.
Kim (37:40.581)
Yeah.
Bri (38:00.718)
But for the most part, just trying to even just sit down with your food and really focus and take a breath. And the other thing I've been working on is integrating after I eat my food, I find myself almost every time, especially while I'm working from home and it's a work day, I literally finish my last bite, stuff my bite in my, in my mouth and stand up and walk away from the table. So yeah, I've sat down, but then I just stand up and walk away while I'm still chewing. And I really been trying to catch myself on that.
lately, it's so much better for our digestion to just stay seated, take a beat, finish that bite of food, maybe take a breath or two, and then stand up and walk away. It's gonna do wonders for your nervous system and your digestion and therefore your pelvic health. Yep.
Kim (38:45.827)
Yeah, exactly. Before we wrap up and talk a little bit about where people can find you and the new thing that you've just launched today. The other piece that came up and I'm bringing our retreat up, not sure, yes, we want to promote our retreat, but it's just that was a recent connection that we had with other people where we were witnessing transformations and...
Bri (38:57.55)
Mmm.
Kim (39:11.619)
The people who came to us ahead of time reluctant to sign up because they didn't have a private bathroom. They were worried about bathroom issues. They were worried about their personal health situation. All of the things, all of the reasons that people were putting in front of them saying that I can't do this because, but yet they still took that step and shared a room, shared a bathroom, shared stories, bonded with other women. And we were giving people...
advice on pooping practices and that there are lots of bathrooms in it. But a lot of people were pooping better for many different reasons. But you and I also had a discussion because we were sharing a room together. What's your morning practice like? What is because we've known each other online for years, we are very well connected. But this is the first time we're like, okay, we're going to be in physical space together. What do you do? And both of us seem to have a fairly similar practice of
the morning, the routine, the quiet, a little bit of movement, but we want our space. We need our time. We want to be able to kind of sit and do our thing so then we can poop well and then we carry on with our day. So what is your morning routine on a typical day? What does your morning routine look like?
Bri (40:26.414)
I am so happy we're ending with poop, is all I have to say. I think this is fantastic.
Kim (40:28.649)
Nothing can happen in a day until we've had a good poop, right?
Bri (40:33.87)
Yes, so true. So my daily routine is I get up. I have some, I have coffee. I mean, I usually do kind of like a half calf situation. It's quite complicated. I won't go into that, but I have my warm drink and I eat right away. I wake up hungry. That's not everybody, but for me, I wake up hungry and I eat and that is very good for stimulating a movement between the warm drink and then a little food and
Even so, I don't want to talk to anyone. And Kim, you and I were really, I loved that we were open about this. And it was like, yeah, I'm just letting you know. Yeah, no offense, but I don't want to chat in the morning. Like this isn't, we need space. And so I'm at home. I am the same. Like I just don't really want to talk. I want to sit in my little quiet area and have my coffee and my little toast with flax seed and the way I do it. And then I will, usually for me, actually what gets things going,
Kim (41:09.345)
No offense, but...
Bri (41:32.046)
is either movement, so I'll go on a quick little walk outside and then it'll happen, but sometimes that can be a little too stimulating and I'm like, gosh, emergency, I'm out on the walk and here we go. So that can be hard. Sometimes I like to save my walks and my movement for after I've gone to the bathroom. But almost a home run for me every time is actually getting to work, like going onto my computer for whatever reason, for me, checking my email, just standing at my computer or lying on my belly and checking on my laptop and just.
kind of mindless work, nothing that takes too much mind energy, but you know, just work. That always gets me going. So it takes about 30, I need to give myself at least 30 minutes and I'm not shy about asking for that time when I'm with friends, when I'm even vacationing with my husband, like he knows it's my time. Don't talk to me, you know? And we, yeah, we have a system.
Kim (42:23.905)
Yeah, likewise. There's a phenomenon. I'm forgetting the name now. It's like the Marioky phenomenon or something. And it's basically, and this is proven, that if you go to a bookstore, and I'm sure this could be any kind of store really, but if you're going into a bookstore, so many people will notice after they've been in there for five, 10 minutes, and all of a sudden they're like, I need a bathroom because...
Bri (42:31.886)
Ooh.
Bri (42:39.214)
yes!
Kim (42:52.607)
And part of what you've just said too, where it's you get to work, which for some people, depending on what your work is, work can take a lot of concentration and focus and energy, but it does. It takes your concentration away from, my God, am I going to poop? Am I going to get all the worry that is often associated with pelvic health stuff. And so when we distract ourselves and take our mind away, whether we're reading the back of a book at a bookstore or labels at a food store or something like that, that can that could be a way to stimulate a
Bri (43:05.166)
right?
Kim (43:21.79)
the bell movement, which I thought was kind of cool.
Bri (43:23.598)
Okay, so this is amazing. I think we just brought something else full circle is this is kind of like focus and release. It is like focus. I'm going to have my coffee. I'm going to have my toast. I'm kind of focusing on getting things moving and now I'm going to release. I'm letting it go. Not focusing on my poop anymore. I'm just going to get to work. Absolutely. I love that. Let that shit go.
Kim (43:29.278)
Yeah, totally, totally.
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Let that shit go.
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so today, just before we started recording, you told me you have launched a new something. So I want you to tell us a little bit about that. And also where people could come and do the in person two or three days with you. Like where can people learn more about you and work with you?
Bri (43:52.302)
Yeah.
Bri (44:06.958)
Yeah. So I just launched a passion project of mine that I'm so excited about. It's called the MindBody Pelvic Health Academy. And this is an academy that makes it sound kind of fancy and challenging, but it's for everybody. So it's not like it's just for, you're not going to earn a, you know, an official degree at the end. You will earn a certificate of completion, but it's not an official degree. It's not a...
It's not a college or school like that. It's for everyone, but it's for anyone who really is interested in diving deeper into that mind body connection and the mental and emotional work of pelvic health. So we do talk about structural stuff, but we start from a very outside in approach, working really distal to proximal. We don't go straight to the pelvic floor muscles right away. It's very holistic, very well -rounded, step by step guided, and I'm just over the moon.
excited to take people through this so that they can really realize my whole thing lately is we are all doctorates of our own bodies. Like we can get that faith and trust and you know, I don't know just
Scholarship, I guess in ourselves. We have it. We just need someone to help sometimes guide us and help us understand. And the other thing is for healthcare professionals who know a lot about the pelvic floor, pelvic health, they're welcome to join my mind, body, pelvic health Academy as well. So maybe you're a pelvic floor PT and you get a little freaked out when people come in with emotional issues that, you know, these things may be contributing to their pelvic floor issue, but you don't know how to help. And so this is going to give you some
some tools and resources for you to help yourself, but also to really understand the whole picture so that you can help your clients in new ways and direct them to places and resources when you don't have the skill set or tools, but you'll know, you'll understand a little bit more about how to handle people in a holistic way. So that's the Academy and just to kind of, I guess, make it easy, I have, well.
Bri (46:14.382)
It's slightly complicated, but hopefully it's gonna become easy soon for folks. I have two different websites. So I have one website called Vibrant Pelvic Health. And I'm online everywhere as Vibrant Pelvic Health. That's my YouTube channel, that's my Instagram, that's my website that has my...
foundational programs. So a program called lift for prolapse relief and another program called overcome pelvic pain. So those programs are wonderful. They do really look at the body. They do prescribe exercises. They're more of a body based approach. Then I have another website called briangrogan .com. This is the new one and it has my Academy.
and it also has the experience that two to three day retreat. So if you're kind of like, ooh, I kind of like this more, you know, holistic stuff, you're gonna get that in everything I do. Any way you work with me, you're gonna get that, but you're really gonna get it over at briangrogan .com. Yeah.
Kim (47:12.792)
Got it. Perfect. Thanks for clarifying. That's awesome. I'm super excited for everything that you're doing. I know that this has been a power. We've been talking about it since last year at the retreat and again, watching it kind of unfold. So congratulations for launching that. That's huge.
Bri (47:25.774)
Thank you. It's been such an evolution. And that's the thing is I'm, I'm, I'm in this for the long game. Like I'm in this for life. And of course, you know, 14, however, 17, I don't know a long time into pelvic health, 17 years into pelvic health, of course I've evolved. And of course I need a new website and new programs to really showcase that evolution. So thank you for witnessing it, Kim. And thanks for asking about it.
Kim (47:49.654)
Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for your time, for all the work that you do to move this conversation forward, advocate for women's health, the care that you provided people one -on -one. And I will say that when we do the retreat, there are five spots open for people to work one -on -one with us. And this year, they're filled up again. They fill up very quickly. There are four spots, I guess, we do. And everybody who had their session with you, I could see the transformation.
them walking away or coming to lunch afterwards, right? It was just, it was remarkable and really, really, really, really fortunate to be part of that. So yeah, I'm excited about this year again. For those of you that are interested, the retreat today, as of today, this is, we're recording on May 22nd. This will be launched in June, but the retreat is at the end of August and we do currently have five spots left. We'll share the link in the show notes. We sold out last year, 30 people. I know we will again this year, but it was, I can't wait to do it again. It was just awesome.
And it was just so, that was the first time that we met each other in real life. Like IRL as they say, right? The cool kids.
Bri (48:52.878)
Right. And the first of many, I just, I love you and I'm so grateful that we're friends and colleagues.
Kim (48:59.669)
Yeah, love you too so much. Thank you so much for this. And we will, well, I guess I won't see you probably in person until August, but I'll see you on.
Bri (49:07.95)
Yeah, see you then. All right, bye everyone.
