Kim (00:01.416)
Hi, Dr. Matheson. Thank you so much. I am really excited about this conversation. We've been talking about doing this for quite a while and we've known each other for quite a while. And before we started recording, we almost did an entire podcast episode with all of the catching up and things that we've been up to. But I'm really happy to have you and nice to see your face. And for those of you that are watching the video, but I would love to we're going to talk about a whole bunch of things, mainly around digestive health as it connects with pelvic health.
and your work as a naturopathic doctor. But I wanna have you kind of introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what led you to this field. We met for the first time probably 15 years -ish ago, I'm thinking. And so you've kind of been in practice maybe about five -ish years or so, but you were starting to bring in the pelvic health piece in there and that's what initially had connected us. And so I'd love to hear what even brought you to naturopathic medicine, what then...
had you layer in the pelvic health piece and then the digestive health piece as well that we're gonna go through.
Christine (01:07.855)
Absolutely and thanks so much for having me and you know I mean I was just giving Kim tons of accolades because I think her work is so important and it overlaps we're all trying to improve our understanding and awareness about abdominal and pelvic health and that's sort of my goal and I think I said like I've really I focus largely on women and I try to really help us stop
focusing on how our bellies look, which is what we've internalized and has been indoctrinated, and really make sure we're in tune with how it feels. And, you know, there's a lot of information out there now about gut health and there's a lot to sift through and there's some really important new research. So I'm happy to help. So bring some light to some of those topics. In terms of how I started and my background.
You know, it's interesting for me in reflecting on that. I have my mother who was very interested in nutrition and wellness and a father who was traveling a lot for work to China and would come home with stories of acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine and Chinese herbs. So I had these influences as a child growing up knowing that, you know,
we have a certain role to play in terms of our health, that we can play a proactive role and that there are all sorts of solutions out there. And as is the case with many practitioners, I had my own health journey that kind of guided me. I always had sensitive digestion and that led me to be health solution seeking. And, you know, had an assessment done with
conventional medicine was just simply told, I mean I had a colonoscopy at a fairly young age, I think I was in high school, told that everything was fine and that it was a functional issue which usually means irritable bowel syndrome which we understand even better now and we actually don't, we tend to not even use the word functional disorder, we talk about it as a gut brain interaction disorder now.
Christine (03:18.864)
but we didn't have that information then. So I was really interested in optimizing my digestion. And it wasn't until I actually went to university, to UBC, University of British Columbia, that I first saw a naturopathic doctor. And that's what changed things for me. It was the first time someone really helped me not only talk about what I was eating, but how I was eating and how the nervous system connects with the gut.
and I'll never forget it because one of the first herbalists I also saw was the first time someone said, can I place my hands on your belly to do some healing work? And I was like, you're not just checking how it feels like medically. And to have someone tune into that with me and help me recognize where I was holding tension was really, really huge. So I ended up doing a lot of my papers at university about
these topics in women's health and everyone would say, well, why aren't you going into medicine? And I was like, I'm an art student. I'm a women's study student and I'm interested in these topics, but I'm not a science -based person. And eventually it forced me to go, well, actually maybe I could do this. So I became a yoga instructor while I slowly studied and got all my pre -medical sciences completed. And...
My journey brought me back home to Toronto where I'm born and I went to the Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine and it was pretty clear once I was there that, you know, gut health, abdominal health was the centre of a lot of our health issues and so much of conventional medicine, particularly in my own journey, was about sort of chasing symptoms instead of optimising systems, right, which is what...
I would say now, I would say optimizing the nervous system and the gut are equally important. So that's where it guided me. And then how the pelvic health came into the picture is when I first graduated, I was really fortunate through networking to hear that they were opening up the first ever Women's Pelvic Health Center at Women's College Hospital in Toronto.
Christine (05:41.075)
And I was pretty new and green, but I had led a lot of women's health initiatives at Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine and showed a real interest in this area. And so I joined the Women's Pelvic Health Centre team, which was really ahead of its time in many ways. It was led very bravely and courageously by a urologist, Dr. Leslie Carr.
who I admire deeply, who believed in an integrative and holistic approach and had myself on the team, psychotherapist, pelvic floor physiotherapist, gastroenterologist and gynecologist and urogynecologist all sitting at a table having discussions about how we could help patients like really interactive, not just all of us housed in one clinic, but really working on case studies and trying to make a difference.
And that really changed things for me. And I started to see how so many of the patients who had pelvic health issues had constipation or irritable bowel syndrome or prolapse issues that were happening in concurrence and their pain was combined with discomfort, which was connected to their digestion. And so I really started to see those interconnections and was looking basically to create as many
I could provide as a naturopathic doctor and through the avenue of doing the work that I was doing and so I kept adding to that toolbox and some of those tools we're going to talk about today.
Kim (07:15.265)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Okay, so before we get to one of the main tools that we're going to talk about, just I want to come back to something you said with regards to IBS. And I think that's a diagnosis that seems to be a lot more prevalent now. And it's again, those questions of is it actually happening more? Is it just people have more awareness or is it people self diagnosing themselves as having IBS and the different types? But another kind of follow along. So if you can talk about IBS, but also.
as it pertains to prolapse, especially rectocele. So there's a lot of people who are dealing with a rectocele for those listeners that aren't aware. A rectocele is where the type of organ prolapse where the rectum bulges into the back wall of the vagina and it can create a pocket where gas and stool can get trapped and it can make elimination very difficult. And...
Christine (08:03.475)
Thank you.
Kim (08:08.8)
So there is a functional reason or an anatomical reason why it could be difficult. But if you can talk about what IBS is, the different types of it and why, like, is there a relationship between IBS and rectocele, vice versa?
Christine (08:26.74)
Yeah, I'm so glad you brought it up. And I want to add that there's also a term I think which is important for your listeners to know about, which is called visceral hypersensitivity. And that is part of the IBS experience for many people. So IBS stands for Irritable Bowel Syndrome. And there are different subtypes, many subtypes now, but the categorization largely was whether your digestion tends to be constipating.
or you're having diarrhea and loose stool or a combination of both. So a lot of the subtypes are connected to that. But now because it's a, was often, as I said, a functional gut disorder, now we're starting to call these gut brain interaction disorders because people who have the experience of IBS, which can mean that they're more noticing the sensations.
of digestion, whether that be bloating, gas, the feeling of constipation, of feeling fullness, may also be people who have more sensitive nerves in their visceral organs, which I think I am one of because now I understand why I always said I have sensitive digestion. I think there's just some subtypes of us that have a
predisposition to be able to feel things differently than others in the digestive tract, which affects your pelvic health. So how that all connects to rectocele and pelvic floor health is that if you have two things, if you have constipation that's building up and that pattern happening, that builds up pressure and sometimes starts to stretch the rectum and creates...
these changes anatomically and I've seen this even in children like in my practice you know whose parents come with x -rays and so the enlarged rectum is it's just a build up a stool that's not getting out and so that can in itself over time the chronicness of it build up to create the prolapse and create so much pressure in the area and the same thing is almost true though even if you have loose stool either
Christine (10:50.58)
alternating with constipation is there's a whole guarding pattern happening with the nervous system. So the pelvic floor muscles, the abdominal muscles are interacting to create tension in that area, which is why so many of the tools that we're going to talk about today are about undoing some of those tension patterns and addressing the nervous system brain connection so that we can create more flow and more regulation. And
I always try to explain it to my patients when, you know, I talk about it as the Friday factor or the weekend factor where I ask like, when do you have easier digestion? Like, just remember any time your digestion might've been easier. And it's often when they're more relaxed, when they aren't under a deadline or they have to get to work or they have to be somewhere. Most of us experience digestive changes with travel because everything's...
you know, upside down time -wise and changing and flying is really difficult for the digestive system too. It can supposedly affect the microbiome as well, they're saying in studies now. So ultimately all that guarding could be contributing to the function of the rectum and its ability to help properly eliminate stool as well. And over time, any pattern that is chronic,
can lead to those anatomical changes. And as I said, you might get an enlarged rectum or build up of impacted stool, not to get too graphic, but this is situations, and I know you've talked very openly about this, which is so important. I mean, as naturopathic doctors, we're comfortable talking about this too, because we think it's important as well. But some people need to physically get some of that impacted stool out to start the process of healing that area.
and to improve the chance that they won't have as severe erectus tail or prolapse build up over time. And as I said, like it can start in childhood. So these patterns are important to address sooner than later.
Kim (13:01.436)
Yeah. And some people, like people think about constipation and okay, you know, constipation is bad, constipation is hard, constipation is straining, but people can have, as you say, alternate between the two. Some people say consturia where they might be backed up for a while and then all of a sudden it's loose and it's like you take the plug out almost and then now they have loose stool, but loose stool can also be damaging to the pelvic floor.
And it's not just the physical act of straining that is challenging to the pelvic floor.
Christine (13:34.071)
So true, because your reaction is to then tighten, right? To protect from accidents and things like that. So you're guarding for sure. And I guess I also want to emphasize to your listeners, like, IBS, I was looking at the statistics ahead of this, like it's first of all, more prevalent in women. So that's a fact. And in pelvic health issues are probably more prevalent in women too. And,
In Canada, we have one of the highest prevalence in the world. Globally, it's about 11 percent of people are dealing with IBS. And then in Canada, it's 18 percent, supposedly. Yeah. So it's I guess what I'm why I'm sharing factual evidence based information like that is to normalize and to make your listeners and all of us feel like, you know what, this is super common. So we need to create more tools and strategies and our medical system, you know.
is necessary for there to be more support around this. Yeah.
Kim (14:35.003)
Yeah, yeah. Before we move on to what we were originally going to talk about, I have one more question because you brought up the point of some people need to, you know, manually evacuate and sometimes that's splinting, sometimes that's using a finger to actually scoop. There's also colon hydrotherapy that I get asked about a lot and I'd say I sit on the fence. I think that this can...
Christine (14:40.246)
Okay.
Christine (14:50.261)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (14:59.866)
can be a helpful tool for some people, but it also, there's a little, I don't know, it just doesn't feel super great to me. So I'm curious as to your thoughts on colon hydrotherapy as a way to kind of clean everything out and get started on healing your gut or just as a, is it something that people should do once a year to maintain? Like, what are your thoughts on colon hydrotherapy? First of all, what is it and what are your thoughts on it?
Christine (15:23.511)
Yeah, it's a tricky one because I tend to stay away from it in the sense that it would be like the very last resort for most people because of the potential risks and because it could impact your gut microbiome. So to explain what it is, is colon hydrotherapy. I mean, the simplest form is an enema where you're inserting a tube that's putting water, usually warm water.
into the rectum to stimulate the emptying of the bowels. Colon hydrotherapies when you actually go to a location where hopefully someone very well trained is going to do a more extensive version of that. And it just doesn't make sense from a microbiome perspective to over clean the bowels when it takes so much time to build up a healthy microbiome.
And there are risks involved because you don't know, you know, potentially there could be something, what's the quality of the water and often other things are put in the water to help stimulate digestion. So it was more trendy, I would say in the 90s and maybe even early 2000s to in the sort of gut health field, but.
I've studied with gastroenterologists. I've really tried to be evidence -based and I am very hesitant towards a patient considering that. And I would be extremely cautious. And as I said, it would be kind of like the very last resort if someone, you know, was having a really chronic condition that needed to just get kickstarted. But even then I would highly research where you're going to do it and how you're going to do it. And if...
the person did have a rectocele or any issues in that area, it could be highly complicated. It might not work very well. So it could actually exacerbate a condition and cause more swelling in that area if you're kind of pushing pressure into that area. So yeah.
Kim (17:19.672)
Yep. Yeah.
Kim (17:28.759)
Right, yep, okay, confirmed. So as we move into, as you say, you've got tools that are helping with digestion, maybe start with what is digestion and what is good digestion? What would bad digestion look like? And then how do you start when you're working with somebody? Why would they come to you? And what are some of the signs and symptoms of maybe poor digestion?
Christine (17:49.175)
Hmm.
Christine (17:53.175)
Yeah, I mean, I really respect how educated my patients are. So often they come to me very much having tried many things or having read a lot of resources and there are some great resources and some not so good resources out there. So I'd say the typical reason people come to me with digestive issues is bloating, gas, constipation or alternating diarrhea.
Occasionally I get the upper digestive concerns, acid reflux, GERD, things like that, but because my signature program is called the Belly Be Well program, I do work more with the lower digestive system and all of the conditions that you might relate to that as well. And often they're overlapped for because I focus primarily on women with gynecological health issues, period issues, menopause, perimenopause. So, you know, as naturopathic doctors, we're always
trying to see how everything interrelates. But my initial assessment is always to look at the whole situation to see, not only you'd think it's naturopathic darts, but you'd be focused largely on what they eat, which is important because you want them to be eating.
healthier diet and what that means from a gut health perspective is are they getting enough types of fiber that are helping move the digestive system along? Are they getting enough fluids and water intake to help make things move along as well and to bind with that fiber?
Our plant foods are our key source of fiber. So we know that getting, you know, a wide variety of plants is really important to get enough of the fiber, five to six types of fiber a day. And now we know the more diverse we have, the better. So if you eat an apple on Monday, maybe eat a pear on Tuesday and an orange on Wednesday. So you're not always eating the same things. So you're getting diversity because the microbiome loves that. So diet is super important. Fiber.
Christine (19:56.121)
super important. You know, I studied with Dr. Will Busewitz whose book Fiber Fueled is such a great resource to learn more about the importance of this. But...
he and I agree and many others that it's also about our nervous system. So the gut brain connection. So understanding how we often call the entire abdominal area has its own set of a nervous system called the enteric nervous system, often called the second brain because it's so highly innervated like our brains are innervated. And so we're getting so much nerve activity in that area. So if you tend to feel a lot in your digest,
system or hold a lot of tension there and we can include including within that is holding trauma of past trauma that we could be holding in our body in some way shape or form. We need to look at breathing breathwork techniques.
how you're eating, are you sitting down to eat, are you chewing your food enough and are you relaxed when you're eating? And I'm going to share an abdominal massage technique, which I think is hugely simple and powerful for people to know and to get in touch with their own bellies. And so connecting with that and then the microbiome, the ecosystem of your gut is what you're constantly trying to keep aware of and know if that's
playing a role in terms of your health. So I think that is really, really important to consider as well. So the diet plays a role there, but we now know stress plays a role in our microbiome. So anything we can do to optimize our microbiome is equally important. So I'm looking at all those tools. And as a naturopathic doctor, we have herbal medicine to turn to too. And so looking at herbs as a source of a way to either soothe the digestive system or
Kim (21:34.262)
Mm -hmm.
Christine (21:58.617)
stimulate digestion or help us create more, for instance, we need more bitter flavors in our diet to stimulate our own digestive juices. So I love, you know, utilizing herbs as well and, you know, turning to that. And of course we have supplements too, but we tend to, I tend to start with these other tools and then add supplements as needed because the whole topic of probiotics, which I'm sure we might want to touch on, is there is no one probiotic
Kim (22:13.27)
Mm -hmm.
Christine (22:28.494)
that's best for everyone. So we need to also really be careful with using probiotics. They're not the first choice necessarily to help someone who's coming to me with bloating that might exacerbate it. So starting with these other tools and then maybe building the microbiome through diet first. And prebiotics are in those plants too that feed the microorganisms, not only the fiber but the prebiotics. So we have lots of tools there to start with and I hope that gives you a good idea and a good start.
Kim (22:55.542)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, I refer to Fiber Fueled, the book Fiber Fueled all the time. I love that book. I love the cookbook. I think it's so it's just it's awesome. I really appreciate the information. I didn't know that you'd studied with him. So that's that's really, really cool. The.
Christine (23:10.331)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kim (23:15.574)
The herb piece, so the diversity is something that I talk about. I talk about that, like I'm not a gut health person. I talk about the importance of it and then refer out, but I also talk about diversity and movement. And I think diversity is, it's obviously a very hot topic in the world as well, but it's important that we experience many different things and we can apply that to many parts of the body with the digestive system being one of them. So we've talked a little bit about the food and the...
The herbs, are there specific herbs that would be like that you would go to and like I guess we first need to understand what the person would need. We don't just want to throw herbs in there because you know that's how our world works. Like somebody said this herb I'm going to try it and it may not be what that person needs or would benefit from.
Christine (23:56.605)
Yeah.
Christine (24:02.174)
Yeah.
Absolutely. And there are a lot of herbs that sound similar, so you have to be really careful and be really cautious about what you're taking. So I always, I mean, I mentioned bitter herbs are always kind of a great tonic for the digestive system. And we don't tend to include enough of the bitter foods like arugula and rapini and things like that, that are so good for stimulating digestion. So I love bitter herbs that we often, they're formulated together, like just
is one of the most bitter herbs. It's a little intense so you might combine it with other gentler bitter herbs. But I did actually want to highlight a herb that I use for pelvic health and digestion when there's like that combination going on. It's cramp bark. It's actually called cramp bark and so it's a uterine tonic. And so early on in my work at Women's College Hospital, I started just almost every patient giving them cramp bark just to calm the uterine.
down a little bit and not just related to period cramps. And I started to see that helped patients who had urinary pelvic issues going on. It was always an extra added support. So I love herbs that play multiple roles and I love the way herbs work because in nature it's very common when you look at a herb that it doesn't have just one system that it helps. It helps many systems at the same time. So that's
that's one of my go -to's as well.
Christine (25:40.767)
You know, and then I, you know, there are the simpler ones that most of us know, like peppermint or ginger and even like lemon balm that shouldn't be underrated, which have lovely digestive tonic benefits and even in tea form on a regular basis can be really useful. And, you know, I work with people of all ages. So sometimes when I work with people who are younger and we want to start with gentler strategies, that can be useful too. So those are some of them.
Kim (26:08.266)
Hmm.
Christine (26:10.72)
Yep.
Kim (26:11.69)
Before we move on to the abdominal massage that you mentioned, I just want to ask a question, a couple of questions. One was hydrochloric acid digestive enzymes. I hear lots of different schools of thought on this. A lot of people are, you know, you must have low stomach acid, so take hydrochloric acid or just take apple cider vinegar before you eat. Where does digestive enzymes come from?
Christine (26:40.542)
You know, it's a great question.
Kim (26:40.649)
in and what about the addition of hydrochloric acid? When would that be needed?
Christine (26:44.512)
Yeah, no, I love this question because it kind of goes back to what I said is we have to not just chase symptoms, we have to optimize systems. So digestive enzymes are
useful in a pinch to help give you extra enzymes and I usually suggest ones that have some hydrochloric acid in it like the HCL in it because I don't know whether the stomach acid is low or not and you can do some more investigation in regards to that but it's more of a band -aid method to go to adding the enzymes because the herbs I was referring to bitter herbs particularly help stimulate your own enzymes and your own body.
style and your own digestive juices to start working. And whenever I prefer and most of my patients do longer term solutions, right? So my goal is always to help someone so that the self care tools that I'm going to give them are going to mean that they, you know, have less and less of a need for me to guide them because they're going to have being more the driver seat of their health. So when you stimulate your own digestion through bitter herbs or
or eating more bitter foods, for instance, having more fiber, which helps with the flow of the digestion, everything comes together and starts to function differently. It doesn't mean that I don't believe that having enzymes in your dispensary or in your cupboard handy in case, like the other night we ate out, it was something different. I knew my system was not sure about what I was digesting. So I just took a couple of enzymes as well as some bit.
just because I knew it was a very specific time period that it would help with. But if someone were to lean on digestive enzymes as their whole method, I don't think that long term that's going to help their body do what it is innately able to do as well. So, you know, it becomes more relevant based on your age too. As we age, some of these digestive juices and HCl change as we get older. So...
Christine (28:54.178)
There could be more application for digestive enzymes for a situational or age -related condition. But as a rule, I always try to start with diet, nutrition, herbs, anything that's stimulating your digestive system naturally. And then also making sure that you're manually doing some exercise or massage or something to the belly to make sure things are flowing.
Kim (29:21.704)
Perfect segue into the massage. So you're talking about the Arvigo technique. Also, I've heard it referred to, and correct me if I'm wrong, as my abdominal massage. So tell us what this technique is and how you came, how did you find it and how did you start incorporating it into your practice?
Christine (29:37.345)
Correct.
Christine (29:41.217)
Yeah.
Christine (29:46.594)
Yeah, so interestingly enough, when I was dealing with my own digestive issues, I almost always...
I placed my hands on my belly intuitively. I started to go, well, what, like maybe I can do something here, you know, like my hands are right and handy and I can do something. And so I was kind of exploring that. And even when I was first practicing, there's a massage called the I love you massage that I heard about that some doctors refer to, which is you go in the pattern of the letters of I L U around the abdomen. And so there was some little glimpses and
of the use of abdominal massage being beneficial. But early on when I was studying naturopathic medicine, I heard about Dr. Rosita Arviko who had really spearheaded creating and bringing to attention a more ancient healing abdominal massage technique. And it's not the only one in the world like Shiatsu and other world wisdom traditions. Even
traditional Chinese medicine will focus a lot of its acupressure and acupuncture points on the abdomen. But Dr. Rosita Arvigo, which is what the technique is named after, went to Belize to study Mayan healers who were practicing various techniques to help people's wellness. And one of the key ones that they utilized, particularly for women, was this abdominal massage technique.
and there were midwives who added in some techniques as well. So she saw this was really powerful and was concerned that this art was going to be lost and this technique would be lost. So she made it her life's work to move her family and her life there and to study with Don Aligio, the key healer while he was alive and promised that she would share this technique with the world. And because she came from a Western background,
Christine (31:52.246)
background she added her understanding of anatomy and understanding of why this could be useful. And so that's why it's called the Arvigo techniques of Mayan abdominal therapy. It's her interpretation, her understanding and honouring of their practice. And so it really consists of two components. One is a treatment that you can receive from an Arvigo therapist and teaching you how to do a self abdominal massage technique, which takes
about five to ten minutes a day. It's not complicated but it can be really really powerful and the reason why we think it's beneficial is it increases circulation to the area and by doing that that can improve function. It improves the vitality of the nerves in the area. It also improves the ability of that area to
to eliminate more effectively. And so a lot of what we're focused on as practitioners, therapists of our Vico techniques is to help teach this self -care technique to individuals so they really feel that this is something they can practice daily, except for when menstruating or except for when pregnant, a technique that they can utilize and optimize, not just digestion, but gynecological health.
as well as the pelvic health. Yeah. Yep.
Kim (33:17.703)
So interesting. So you're an art RV co therapist and I there's a woman in Vancouver where I am and it's probably maybe even six or seven years ago now when I was first learning about this technique and I went and had a session with her and learned the self care and came home and I can't say that it's a regular part of my practice but every once in a while I do use the self care.
Christine (33:22.757)
Yes.
Christine (33:41.86)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (33:45.599)
And we were talking ahead of time before we started recording about some people relying on the therapist and not being as maybe diligent with the self -care, which I think is true with a lot of different things. But so what, how, like if somebody came to see you, what does a session look like when you're doing RV go massage?
Christine (33:53.604)
Mm -hmm.
Christine (33:58.437)
Yes, yeah absolutely.
Christine (34:08.837)
Absolutely. Kim, one of my children has to get in through the front door. Can I just pause and get that? And you can cut this part out. Okay, just hold on. Sorry about it. Hold on.
Kim (34:14.495)
Yes, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, yep. No worries. Yep.
Christine (34:41.126)
You have to be quiet now. Close the door, please. OK. I'm just going to wait till he's finished leaving so I'm not distracted. Sorry about that. OK, can you go in the kitchen or go upstairs? OK.
Kim (34:52.063)
Yeah, all good, no worries. Not a problem.
Christine (35:04.294)
He's just moving. I just don't want to be distracted. Okay, okay. Okay, honey, we're waiting for you. Go, go, go.
Kim (35:07.902)
Yeah, all good.
Christine (35:20.487)
I'm gonna start explaining it.
Christine (35:26.375)
Okay, so having an Arvigo treatment for me right now, I actually only teach the self -care massage technique. But previous to that, I would...
include giving them the massage treatment. I would walk them through what to expect and what the experience was going to be like and then I would at the very end teach them the self -care technique. And so the actual treatment includes massaging the, it's all external, it's an abdominal massage on the external abdomen and the treatment also includes some work on the back and the lower back to release a lot of the nerves related to the pelvic floor tension that many women experience.
The technique can be done on males, but I have focused my practice solely on women. And now, since the pandemic, I've ended up focusing on the self -care. So to your point, what I was noticing is that several patients, there was sort of a group that would just come for the treatments, but weren't really implementing the self -care and weren't getting, I would say, as a
immediate results because they weren't getting that massage practice in on a daily basis. And alternatively, there was a group who were like, you know, I just want to learn the self care and run with that. And they were getting really great results. And I have some stories to share in a moment that might illustrate that. But what I do now is I work virtually. So I will combine my naturopathic treatment with teaching.
the Arvigo techniques of the mind abdominal massage. So I will go from, you know, doing a naturopathic consultation to being on Zoom and teaching that technique visually to them and then guiding them through it. And it's not complicated, which is important to emphasize because it sounds kind of...
Christine (37:28.009)
I don't know, it sounds interesting and maybe difficult, but it's not. It's quite simple. It takes, as I said, five to 10 minutes. Often most of my patients do it right before bed and integrate that into their other self -care schedules. They might do a castor oil pack afterwards or meditation or breath work. So that's how it works. And I personally feel that the self -care is the tool that I emphasize the most because I feel like it's going to have the longest
benefit for people. I have a patient who I taught the technique to at a time in her life where her digestion was struggling and she was hoping one day she'd have children. There's a whole tangent of marketing that has I guess and also interest in our VEGO massage for fertility as well and so we do think it might potentially help. I'm
very evidence -based so I'd like to see some studies and things but I have a lot of patients who come to me reading about it for those benefits. Anyway, her life moved her far away from me so we weren't in touch for a long time and then she reconnected about a year ago and was like I am so grateful you taught me that technique because I've been able to have two kids and have good digestion. When I
you know, was recovering. I also knew how to sort of help my pelvis recover. And she ended up going into the wellness industry herself. And so it just became a self -care technique that became part of her daily routine and part of her stages of life routine. You know, we have to avoid it during pregnancy and wait till you fully recovered postpartum. But it was a very moving story for me. And the other end of the spectrum was a patient.
who couldn't even imagine being able to think of pregnancy, had so much pelvic pain. I met her through the Pelvic Health Center at Women's College. And when I first introduced the idea, because I was just freshly trained in this technique, she said, like, I don't even touch my belly. Like, I don't even let my fiance touch my belly. Like...
Christine (39:53.674)
for her to imagine that seems so difficult and foreign. And so I slowly opened the idea to her and she was eventually very open to it. And I'll never forget it because within about six months to a year, I got an email from her while she was on her honeymoon saying like, I think I might be pregnant. Like, and I can't even believe it because it's like, I couldn't even touch my belly.
six months ago and now I'm like I've opened up this area I have less pelvic pain and I feel more comfortable you know in my body so there's this kind of remarkable experiences I've had in being one of the few people in Canada teaching it and certainly as a naturopathic doctor combining my work that way and then the other basic you know response people will give is just literally emailing me
Kim (40:25.302)
Wow.
Christine (40:50.985)
a few days after they've learned the technique like wow like I am digesting so much better like I'm less bloated like or my period had less symptoms or I you know they're just getting more in tune with that part of their body so you know whatever the the method is as I said I we think it's the increased circulation the nerve health the you know even from an eastern perspective you're stimulating all the meridians in that area and the chi in that area.
But I can't wait for there to be some more studies around it, but for now I just, you know, I really think it's a practical self -care tool as part of the whole toolkit that I provide as a holistic approach for digestive and pelvic health.
Kim (41:35.061)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and sidebar when before we started talking, you were referencing the vaginal steaming post that I made and how polarizing it was for people. And everybody knows me that I, as yourself, am very evidence informed. However, I'm not, I'm not, it's not a rigid guideline that if there is not 50 published studies on something, it doesn't mean that I wouldn't consider something else as having.
Christine (41:46.985)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (42:03.764)
potentially a beneficial role. And I view vaginal steaming very much as I think it can be very valuable for a lot of people. And even if we don't have a million studies, I think it's a safe and effective practice for people that feel like it resonates for them. And so kind of as you're saying here, we don't necessarily have oodles and oodles of research to show that there's benefit in this, but we have a lot of different cultures around the world where we can lean on their, their wisdom and take some influence and.
really what harm really can there be and maybe if it resonates with you give it a try and there's so much benefit. I remember even people talking about so the fertility piece I remember hearing obviously the digestive piece but even there was a there's a segment that's talking about the position of the uterus which indirectly can be the fertility piece so a lot of people with prolapse are also attracted to it to see if that can help shift the anatomical position of our structures and yeah.
Christine (43:02.058)
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I think it's when there are these world wisdom traditions and the research isn't kept up with that or there hasn't been research done on it yet. I mean, I think the organizations I'm involved with with this technique are trying to do case studies and gather research and gather reports so there could be more. And at the same time, you know, we do have some...
ideas around the benefits of abdominal massage, like there are some beginnings of discussions about that. So for me though, on a practical level, I felt as a practitioner, I was sitting and talking to so many women about their bellies and all the symptoms they felt in that area. And we were just sitting, talking, and I thought, I feel like I need to do something more physical. And I did...
at some point in my practice use acupuncture. But when I was working at the Women's Pelvic Health Center, many of the women who had pelvic pain, that felt not like an inviting option for them because it was needles and they were scared of the pain related to the needles. So I actually was searching for something that was soothing and gentle and non -threatening for women. And the...
the part of my own journey, having tried to massage my belly and not really sure what I was doing, I felt I almost sort of found these group of people who are really studying this and really understanding the anatomy around it, the pudendal nerve connection, the, you know, the really trying to piece it together. I thought this is maybe this is part of the missing piece. I always believe in utilizing a whole toolbox of approaches for each person and customizing it.
And there are certain people I should highlight that there are some contraindications. So if you have an IUD, for instance, it's contraindicated because you don't want to dislodge the IUD or cause any issues there. If you have an active infection in the either the pelvis or in the bowels or the urinary tract, then that's not the time to do the massage. As I mentioned, if you're pregnant or at the time of menstruation, we don't do it.
Christine (45:22.861)
and if you have a hernia or if you have a gastric reflex you want to take some caution in how you do it and obviously if you've had recent surgery you have to wait till you've recovered fully before you intervene but other than that it's a very gentle method and literally some of my patients do it quite gently and still feel the benefit. It also helps with lymphatic drainage.
as well. So there's a little bit of lymphatic drainage component too as well because we have such a concentration of lymph nodes in the pelvic zone. So yeah, that's an added benefit as well. And a lot of people will notice that sort of fluttery feeling and flow in that area because of the lymph drainage that can occur.
Kim (46:08.626)
You mentioned castor oil packs and I've been a fan of castor oil packs for a long time. It's something that I use in my own self care. When you're doing the Arvigo massage, it's best to have some sort of like a lubricant on your hands on your belly. Is there benefit to using castor oil or is there another type of oil that is more or less beneficial when you're actually doing the massage?
Christine (46:37.551)
Yeah, great question. So you can do the massage with oil right against the skin or with a thin layer over a thin layer of clothing like pajamas or a nightgown because that creates the friction that you need as well. So in the winter, a lot of us Canadians, like when we're doing it at bedtime, we're like, I just want to stay cozy. So you can do it without oil. But I have a few patients who do with castor oil, but as you know, castor oil is a fairly thick oil, so it gets a little goopy and a bit messy. So they'll...
Kim (47:04.208)
and super messy.
Christine (47:07.728)
sometimes just do it with a lighter oil like even olive oil or jojoba or almond. But often they'll do their castor oil right after and do a castor oil pack after. So they'll combine it with that. So, but a few of my patients have used it right for the massage as well. So yeah, I mean, in castor oil packs or rubs are a very traditional naturopathic
Kim (47:28.945)
Yep, yep.
Christine (47:38.096)
therapy again that I wish we had a little more research on but when people utilize them they feel a great benefit. And it's used now on a lot of makeup products and stuff too because it enhances hair growth and our eyebrows and eyelashes and all sorts of things. It's kind of an interesting oil to explore. Yeah, there's a whole episode there I'm sure.
Kim (47:45.392)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kim (47:54.417)
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of taking over the world. It's all over the internet and yeah, totally. So I also my mind also goes when I think of the benefits, I think about potentially for endometriosis and pelvic pain. Can you talk a little bit about that population?
Christine (48:17.745)
Yeah, and that's certainly a population that I see in my practice and have over the years. So obviously that really deserves a holistic approach and also an integrative approach. So making sure they're getting the right ultrasound assessment, getting, you know, we've advanced a lot in that area and make sure they're getting, you know, if there are conventional therapies that are applicable to them or surgery that's applicable in their situation.
So everything I'm doing is supportive around that. But for all the reasons I mentioned, learning the Arvigo massage could be helpful because you could reduce some of the pressure buildup, the guarding patterns that could have formed in that area due to chronic pain, the nervous system connection to that area. But at the same time, you need to utilize strategies to work on hormonal health and work on
the whole reason why we think and it's still actually still trying to be understood, you know, the ideology of endometriosis. So I think so much more work needs to be done in the area of endometriosis. So I would never want a person listening to think like, if they just learn this belly massage, that's the only thing they do. That's certainly not the case. It's a very holistic approach and requires an integrative approach. And I'm I know.
There's been more changes where I live in terms of better understanding of a better assessment. It shouldn't take so long for someone to be diagnosed with endometriosis in the first place. And so I'm often part of that journey as I'm part of the process of suspecting that maybe endometriosis or adenomyosis or uterine fibroids is at play. And so I'm the one saying, let's, you know.
I'm encouraging you to talk to your family doctor about getting some diagnostic tests so that I can actually help know what I'm helping you with.
Kim (50:22.192)
Right, right. And that collaborative approach is something you and I again, talked a lot about. And as you say, like the Pelvic Health Center that you were part of, you mentioned it closed down because of SARS. And I just, the more I hear, like that was way ahead of its time and sad that it's not, hasn't been reinvigorated. And yesterday I was speaking to a group of women, a former, my former family doctor from
20 plus years ago, she left family practice and went into oncology and integrative medicine and was one of the founders of an amazing cancer integrative care facility here in Vancouver called Inspire Health. And so anyway, we were talking about all the therapies and the treatments and the collaborative approach that was there. And isn't it unfortunate that
Christine (50:59.763)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (51:21.519)
These are all viewed as only things that are useful for healing. But if we had this collaborative approach from a health and wellness perspective and incorporated some of these techniques into our daily practice, what role that could play in prevention or reducing the likelihood of. So you are part of this, I always say healthcare team or healthcare village that ideally people can now view as something that they can.
built is to have their own healthcare team and pelvic floor physical therapy is something that you and I both obviously align very closely with and when you were practicing in person before you went totally online were you doing pelvic health assessments as well internal pelvic health treatments?
Christine (52:08.084)
No, that's not within my scope. And so I actually worked in a pelvic floor physio clinic for that purpose. So I was able to integrate really closely. I refer to pelvic floor physiotherapists daily, not just to my patients, but to all of my female friends. So to your point, the ideal is prevention and doing what we can.
collaboratively from all pathways of medicine to help support a patient to hopefully, you know, have some ways to.
prevent the escalation of health issues, but often that's not the case. And so we have to also be prepared on the other end to have the right approach and the integrative approach. And that's what I feel so fortunate, because I worked at Women's College Hospital at the Women's Pelvic Health Centre to have very open -minded doctors ahead of their time, be willing to really look at a case study and make sure we weren't being redundant in our care and that we were really focusing on what the person really, really needs.
And part of that was really proper diagnosis, proper assessment so that we can really treat the right thing. And so, you know, for instance, interstitial cystitis is a whole other topic that is a urinary condition that's not a bladder infection, but it feels like one that one gets. And so it requires its own treatment and its own assessment. And so having...
that.
Christine (53:46.975)
be collaboratively looked at is it's almost those conditions invite an integrative approach. So I agree. And I think it's changed a lot since I started practicing and there's a lot more naturopathic doctors getting involved in hospital settings and, you know, in integrative settings. And I just hope that they're truly collaborative and that the experience that I had was truly collaborative in that sense. So really, really is helping someone. Yeah.
Kim (54:11.179)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, very cool. So where can people learn more about your work and find your Belly Be Well program?
Christine (54:24.12)
Yeah.
Yeah, so Christine Matheson nd .com is the magical world of Belly Be Well everything and I have some free resources there. So one is my top six tips to get your belly well. I have a video training and a guide. So grab that for free and I one of the number one reasons as I said that I get approached is due to bloating. So I created an ultimate bloating guide and that's
available there as well. And I also have a blog that gained a lot of attention there that I wanted to mention that we were talking about because there's a connection between the jaw and jaw tension and pelvic health and so that's a big aha connection for a lot of people. So if that's a new thought for you and you want to learn more about that you can check out my blog on the blog link there and we'll include that as well. And I'm on
Instagram at Dr. Christine Matheson. So I'm happy to engage with you there and the more healthy bellies is my goal.
Kim (55:35.371)
I love it. I'm so appreciative of the work that you have done and are continuing to do and all of the support and resources that you have for people and also for sharing your wisdom here today with us. So thank you so much for your time.
Christine (55:49.113)
my pleasure, absolutely. And I hope everyone's belly is feeling a bit better just by talking about it. Okay.
Kim (55:56.491)
Thank you.
