Kim Vopni (00:00.246)
Okay. Hi, Dr. Sim. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm looking forward to the conversation all about gut health and microbiome. This is it's a topic that is the one that I talk about the most. Well, not that I talk about, but I have the most guests talking about the gut and microbiome and constipation because it is such a huge problem for so many people and especially in my world with pelvic floor challenges. It can be the instigator. It can also be something that
Anu Simh (00:00.809)
Mm-hmm.
Anu Simh (00:16.457)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (00:26.344)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (00:30.178)
people struggle with when they have pelvic floor dysfunction. So I appreciate as many people as I can have on here to talk about it. If you can tell us who you are, what got you into this world of talking about the gut and microbiome.
Anu Simh (00:34.548)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (00:40.361)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (00:44.242)
Sure, yeah. So I am a board certified functional health coach and I've had a background in science for a very long time. But my own health, like most of us practitioners, it's like something happens to you and like you start digging and saying, I need some answers. And that's pretty much what happened to me. I had gut issues and very chronic and I was constantly looking for answers and I went from doctor to doctor and some said this, others said eat more protein.
I mean it was just all over the place and never really got a concrete answer and finally I still remember this one day when I went to a new doctor and he was literally laughed at me and he said, suck it up, you know these things happen, yeah, I mean I'm a resident and this is our life, know, it happens to all of us, a bit of bloating, you know, I mean he just kind of, just kind of didn't even take my symptoms seriously and I remember sitting in the
Kim Vopni (01:26.882)
Wow.
Anu Simh (01:44.096)
parking lot in my car just completely devastated and feeling so hopeless and that's when I clearly heard my grandfather saying, know, take control of your life. You know, he was a physicist and a renaissance man and he was the one who told me like food is medicine, you know, always kind of and I'd forgotten that, you know, I'd forgotten that because I was in this whole American frenzy of let's get work done, let's you know and so convenience.
Kim Vopni (01:59.31)
Thank
Anu Simh (02:14.026)
became the master key, so to speak, rather than really slow down and really look at life. So from there, just, and this is of course, we're talking about a time when we didn't have chat GPT or internet as much, so I had to go research things in the library. I remember spending hours at the UCSD library and that's when I fell in love with the microbiome. And I just, I was like amazed that we have these trillions of bacteria that are
forever guests and we're kind of controlling so many different things. Even then Kim, that we didn't have as much research as we do today, it was very clear that we had this symbiotic partnership and we take care of them and we give them the foods that they deserve and which acts like fuel to them, they really reward us. So I just went back to doing that and I realized at that point that that's exactly how I ate as a child, you know, just because I was, you know, home-cooked meat.
and things like that and slowly I recovered and this is something that like you hear other people saying like my angel says, when you're healed go heal someone else and that's pretty much what happened to me. said well I need to tell more people about the microbiome and then my client started saying, gosh I know you've got to write a book, you write a book so I wrote a book and started talking a lot about the microbiome and this is a big part of my
loss program as well because I noticed that there's a huge connection between menopause, postmenopause especially, weight gain and the gut microbiome.
Kim Vopni (03:54.446)
Amazing. I want to go down the menopause path, but before we do for people who maybe haven't listened to some of the other episodes, can you just give us an understanding of what is the gut microbiome? You've mentioned trillions of bacteria. So what makes up our gut?
Anu Simh (04:12.904)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
And so the important thing to remember is these bacteria have always been there. There's never a time when they weren't within us, in us. So it's almost like a family heirloom that your mom passes on to you. So you have it. so the bigger question is how do we build a resilient microbiome? And a lot of people are thinking about when they think about microbes and bacteria and they think about, these are the best
Kim Vopni (04:28.087)
You
Anu Simh (04:45.064)
guys these are the good guys. I'd like to think about them as like having balance and having a resilient microbiome really means that you have enough species you know like there's a richness of species you have different kinds of bacteria because that is important because they do a variety of functions for you everything from managing your blood sugar to weight and to digestive issues to sleep to mood they do so
many different things, they're very adaptive, helping you in different ways. And so if you have the species richness, the functionality increases. But it's not just about having different species, it's also about having evenness, meaning that you can't really have one species, just kind of one type of bacteria just kind of just explode and that's going to be at the peril of other bacteria. So it's like having like a garden full of
tomato plants and a little tiny zucchini is kind of just struggling to take hold. So we don't want that. So we want species richness, we want species evenness, we want diversity. going into menopause, that's what happens. That diversity is kind of shaky. yeah. So it's important to at least kind of set the baseline as let's have a resilient
Kim Vopni (06:04.584)
Okay. Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
Anu Simh (06:14.954)
microbiome and a healthy microbiome is a resilient microbiome which means that you are bombarded by any kind of health thing or you go to Mexico or you have travelers diarrhea you're able to bounce back and the reason you're able to do that is you have a resilient microbiome.
Kim Vopni (06:32.462)
got it. The first time I really heard the word not that I hadn't heard the word diversity, but diversity as it pertains to the gut was with one of my other guests, Dr. Well, Balsawitz and another one of my teachers, Dr. Not Dr. But Katie Bowman, she was she brings language from nutrition and puts it into movement. So nutritious movement is her brand. And it's all about the micro and macro nutrients and the diversity of movement and
And so I really embrace that term now. I use it a lot. And you're saying that the diversity of what we have inside of us is important, but we need to make sure that we are feeding it also with diversity as well. Yeah. And then what, so in general, before we go down the menopause path, generally speaking, let's do for anybody listening, who's maybe not post menopause, what are some of the ways
Anu Simh (07:14.994)
Yes definitely yeah makes a huge difference.
Kim Vopni (07:29.666)
that we can recover. So you mentioned you kind of got your gut health back in check. So what does a recovery plan look like for some people? And then once we're in that sort of recovered phase, what does maintaining an optimal microbiome
Anu Simh (07:32.68)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (07:45.746)
Yeah, that's a good question. So when you start out and let's say you do have gut issues and you're struggling with, like in my own case, I couldn't just start and say, okay, willy-nilly, I'm just going to add all those fiber beans. There's no way because I didn't have the right players to go to bat for me. I didn't have these gut bacteria that are so adept at breaking down the fiber. But you see, because we are not able to digest the fiber. Though, you know, we eat foods that have fiber, but the fiber eventually goes to the colon,
Distal colon and that's where you have these tons of bacteria kind of saying, yay, food time and they break it down and then they produce healthy compounds for us. But if we don't have those players or we have the species, don't have the species richness, then that's when a lot of the gut issues can occur, you know, not having someone to digest the cellulose in our fiber and break it down. So that happened to me as well and happens to a
a lot of my clients, they're initially not able to and they need some enzyme support, which is where I think a lot of people who are starting out adding fiber should start saying, hey, let me get some support. And then with time, they're able to increase diversity, add different kinds of fibers, increase fibers that are prebiotic in nature, because not all fibers are prebiotic. increase that, have fermented foods, enhance good, healthy fats, protein.
there's a lot of conversation between especially I think in your world I think about protein and you know the importance of protein and 100 % agree the protein is very important especially to postmenopausal women and who are struggling with either sarcopenia or just generally you know just the beginnings of bone loss or muscle loss but along with this I will argue that protein is very important but
you combine it with the fiber because studies have shown us that if you just have the protein that's great for us and our muscle synthesis and all of the good stuff that's happening right but the bacteria starts they are not getting the fuel that they need and so are they going to starve? No, they will either eat your mucus lining or they will eat the protein they'll eat the protein they're going you know they are picky eaters but they'll eat the protein because there's nothing else available
Anu Simh (10:15.35)
and then they can because of that they can produce some unhealthy metabolites like ammonia, hydrogen sulfide. When you think of hydrogen sulfide it's like the rotten egg gassiness and things like that. So that can happen and that's not really conducive for good health. So I always tell people like eat your protein but along with the protein just really ask yourself how am I going to serve my forever guests and
and that's fiber. It's like three years of research for the book, Kim, the one takeaway has been like research after research says, eat your fiber.
Kim Vopni (10:46.69)
Got it.
Kim Vopni (10:55.95)
You mentioned enzymes. As I understand it, have our own enzymes that should ideally be helping us digest the various components of our food. However, there may be times potentially from lack of diversity or for other reasons why we may not have enzymes doing that job and we need some support. Am I understanding that correctly? If so, what type, because I know there's many different types of
Anu Simh (11:07.369)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (11:18.888)
Yeah. Yes.
Kim Vopni (11:24.716)
digestive enzymes, what would somebody start with?
Anu Simh (11:28.116)
Well, I think a good well-drounded, well it also depends on
how the client or the patient is, what are they struggling with? Let's say their biggest struggle is cruciferous veggies or beans and lentils, anything to do with the plant kingdom, then you look for enzymes to support digestion of sulfur compounds, beans, fiber, things like that. But let's say protein is an issue. For a lot of people with constipation, for example, that could be a huge reason
that they are kind of sluggish. Protein is getting putrefied. Protein takes longer to digest and it's sitting there for a long time. So someone like that may need some support for protein digestion. Or it could be in your stomach and then a reduction of HCl. So there could be many, many reasons. So I personally think rather than just chasing symptoms, if we just look at the gut microbiome and say, okay, let's just start
with a healthy diet, what does that mean? I would say protein, fiber, good fats, and as much as you can handle. then along with that comes enzymes to support when you need it. And then eventually you may not need it.
Kim Vopni (13:04.91)
there you are. Lost you. Yeah. Okay, so you were saying along with that enzymes to support
Anu Simh (13:06.12)
Yeah, I don't know what happened.
Anu Simh (13:13.736)
Yeah, to support digestion. And that's like an interim thing, you know, to help you when you need it. But then even taking the, when you take the enzymes can be important. Like, like you said, Kim, there are many enzymes that we produce. So in order for our bodies not to get, our systems to get lazy, sometimes I will tell my clients take the enzyme after, you know, rather than before to prepare.
digestion. these are little things that you can do to kind of just get your systems working again.
Kim Vopni (13:50.958)
Yeah. You mentioned HCl, which is hydrochloric acid. So that's our stomach acid. Is that correct? And what's the difference between the enzyme and the stomach acid in terms of what they're doing?
Anu Simh (13:54.942)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Anu Simh (14:10.236)
So the stomach acid is in your stomach and it's like battery fluid. It's very, very low pH. it's almost like a first, after your oral microbiome, it's like the first line of defense. You you're taking in lots of food. All the stuff that we eat, really come with some toxins, something that's undesirable. And the HCl kills it. So because it's really kind of low pH.
So along with that, we have protein digesting enzymes in the gut. So having good HCl is very important. And as we age, our HCl can decrease with time. And that could be one of the main reasons, because most of the protein digestion is starting in the stomach. Not having that good, strong HCl is challenging. Or the HCl
could be at the wrong place. It could be in the esophagus rather than in the stomach and that can cause acid reflux and other a slew of problems from that where again you know people just resort to medications like you know proton pump inhibitors and things like that but instead I think going back to diet and lifestyle and makes a huge difference.
Kim Vopni (15:11.683)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (15:36.878)
So if they're taking, like if we have the stomach acid, that's kind of as you said, the first line of defense and then the enzymes, some people will say consume apple cider vinegar before you eat. Is that playing the role of the stomach acid or the digestive enzyme?
Anu Simh (15:59.508)
Well actually I'm not sure. You know there's a lot of information about apple cider vinegar but it's like, I mean the research is all over the place so from a science perspective I couldn't tell you why. You know I think there's a lot of information out there that's more alternative in nature and people who
Kim Vopni (16:13.4)
Right.
Anu Simh (16:28.284)
Like, and sometimes it's in your practice, right? I see things in my practice, but I can't tell you that it's like the spoken word. It's of course it's true. It's just because it happened with a couple of my clients. Some of my clients swear that having that apple cider vinegar has made all the difference in their digestion. It kind of cuts the appetite. It just helps them with, they think of it as like a cure-all for, and others say, I didn't see any difference at all. So it's really hard to say.
but I think apple cider vinegar could be used as the first instead of taking like an HCl pill.
which is like available. Some people will try apple cider vinegar initially or umeboshi which is like a Japanese vinegar. All of that to naturally increase your HCL production rather than taking like an HCL pill. And even when you do take HCL you've got to be very cautious and there's a protocol in the alternative world on how you take HCL.
Kim Vopni (17:22.958)
Got it.
Kim Vopni (17:32.056)
Got it. Okay, so I'm gonna come back to menopause. You dropped that little seed at the beginning there. So what is it about the transition into and as we carry on post menopause, what is it about that transition that influences the microbiome?
Anu Simh (17:37.662)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (17:51.88)
That's a good question. Even before we get into menopause, I just want to kind of back up a little bit and say menopause or post-menopause is not a disease. It's a stage in life and it's a stage that lasts up to three to four decades of our life, right? I mean we're living longer so it's time to embrace it and I think especially here in the Western world we've kind of framed menopause and
in terms of loss. Loss of youth, loss of sexuality, loss of hormones, loss of bone. I mean it's loss, loss, loss. But you think about Chinese medicine, they look at menopause as a second spring.
What a wonderful way to look at the stage of life that we have accrued wisdom and there's so many things that are so brilliant about this stage, right? So and we always think about menopause as a stage where like, this is when my hormones are depleted. True, know estrogen tanks, progesterones like who knows, know just all over. So your cortisol may be increasing and you're thinking belly fat, my body is changed.
But not enough has been understood about the microbiome or the gut and its role in menopause. But it does play a huge role because first of all, the gut has some incredible bacteria that are very, very good at eliminating or metabolizing estrogen. So when estrogen, it's called estroblol,
There's a specific enzyme called beta-glucuronidase, which really does a tremendous job at doing just this. But imagine if you do not have diversity in your gut. You don't have the right players producing these wonderful compounds called short-chain fatty acids that's doing all of the work. Obviously, you know, what can happen is estrogen either, you either become estrogen dominant
Anu Simh (20:10.16)
because you're just not getting rid of it, you're not eliminating properly or you become estrogen deficient. I see with a lot of my weight loss clients, clients who come in for weight loss, that there's an incredible estrogen dominance in the microbiome functional analysis tests, you know, and right there it shows me that, there's definitely there's a problem with diversity. There are certain bacteria like ruminococcus, Bifidobacterium that we see in
postmenopausal woman that completely decrease. In fact, research is showing us Kim that the microbiome of a woman postmenopause changes and starts resembling that of a man.
Kim Vopni (20:54.555)
wow.
Anu Simh (20:54.9)
And when you think about it, we have that apple shape and you know the belly and visceral fat, all of that. the microbiome, it is time to remember that the microbiome really plays a huge role in women's health, especially menopause and postmenopausal ages.
Kim Vopni (21:13.294)
Mm hmm. I hadn't thought of. I mean, it makes sense. I can I can think of it from person to person. We all have we all are going to have a different microbiome, but there's there's sex differences is what you're saying as well. So the microbiome of the typical maybe you could say of a man versus a woman is also going to be different. Is that so what would.
Anu Simh (21:25.769)
Mm-hmm.
Anu Simh (21:35.116)
yeah and that's a fantastic thing about the microbiome and I think something that I always tell everyone it is so adaptable. It changes at every stage starting like even before birth to birth to childhood to puberty. mean imagine like there are so many girls who go through puberty and start gaining a lot of weight and their microbiome and even that of a pregnant woman
and starts resembling that of an obese person because that's how much the microbes shift. But the nice thing is 24 hours is all you need to bring some balance back into the microbiome.
It adapts so quickly to diet and lifestyle that it doesn't make sense to ignore it. Everything else takes so much more time. Genes, forget about it, you know what this is. But microbes really respond to change and dietary changes and dietary patterns.
Kim Vopni (22:28.568)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (22:41.134)
So what would be different about the microbiome of an obese person compared to a non-obese person?
Anu Simh (22:50.132)
Again, it depends on the stage of life, but what I have seen in my practice is like an obese person who has been on very restrictive diets, starved their microbiome in the name of weight loss. They've gone through many bouts of it and then they see that they regained the weight. Now research very concretely shows that these people are lacking these flavonoid
burning bacteria, know, bacteria that really are very specific in digesting certain flavonoids, polyphenols and things like that. So what happens when you are on a restrictive diet? You just really stop eating a lot of diversity, right? You just kind of just eat, mono eat every day, okay? I'm just going to have this little piece of chicken and maybe a few pieces of lettuce.
Kim Vopni (23:41.123)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (23:50.166)
and you know I have to watch my weight. So that becomes an obsession at the cost of these, the health of these bacteria. And now we really have good science to show that if we are able to through this time of weight loss, if we are able to feed the microbiome, know the foods that that weight regain doesn't happen as much. And I see that a lot in my practice. mean when you
hear about like Weight Watchers and people like that, they will tell you that people lose weight but no one ever talks about what happens two years down the road because 80 % of people who gain the weight, who lose the weight, gain it back and that's the one big difference feeding your microbiome.
Kim Vopni (24:36.12)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (24:42.942)
helps you with. It really helps you stay healthy, it's feeding the right kind of, it's getting the right kind of microbes to the party and that's what we want. We want microbes that are really adept at digesting these flavonoids and polyphenols and are building these short chain fatty acids that are so healthy and one thing to remember is when we are in postmenopausal stage there are so many changes in our body and our health
right? Cardiovascularly for example, bone health, there's so many things that are happening and the microbiome is involved in every single aspect of health.
Kim Vopni (25:25.612)
Okay. What I want to talk about some of those aspects of before we do what would be I think your answer is going to be diversity lack of diversity, but what are some of the reasons why somebody may struggle with constipation? And when we think about then overcoming that constipation there, there may be several reasons, but we're going to focus on the the gut issues. So there could be pelvic floor problems that are there could be other reasons, but from a gut health perspective, what is
what would contribute to somebody dealing with constipation and then how do we use leverage or gut microbiome to overcome constipation.
Anu Simh (26:04.436)
Good. And as a pelvic floor expert, I think you see this a lot, right? You know, just with the pelvic muscles and the straining, the hemorrhoids, all of the aftermath of constipation. When we look at the gut microbiome and we look at constipation, I think one of the first things for me is looking at serotonin. Serotonin is your happy hormone. 90 % of it is housed in your gut.
and serotonin is really so responsible for gut motility.
that whole peristalsis, know, that wave-like motion where it's, you know, pushing the stools to the lower bowels. So when your serotonin decreases, you know, constipation can occur. So it's not just what you eat, but really having the right bacteria that are helping you with that serotonin production.
Kim Vopni (27:05.678)
So our gut produces our serotonin.
Anu Simh (27:08.242)
Yes, and a good 90 % of it. And then we have that gut-brain axis where there's a back and forth messaging going on. So that serotonin is key. And it doesn't stop right there. We also notice that people who are constipated also are struck, their sleep is impacted.
because think about serotonin, it's the precursor of melatonin and a lot of people who don't have serotonin struggle with sleep because their melatonin production decreases. So it's many fold and all happens in the gut.
Kim Vopni (27:52.738)
I think about myself when I was struggling with my rectocele, which contributed to constipation. I had struggled with constipation before that when I was going through perimenopause and had thyroid challenges. And I became very restricted in my diet as well because I knew exactly what would give me a good poop in the morning and not, hopefully not make me poop again until the next morning.
because it was the later in the day poops that were always a bit of a struggle for me and other people who have erectocele. So I think about that restrictive nature of my diet, eating the exact same thing almost at the exact same time over and over and over again, just pressing repeat. And there was no diversity happening in there. And at the time I was also not sleeping very well and it kind of becomes a chicken and the egg and you're not sleeping. So then you feel worse the next day and that you get in that.
Anu Simh (28:36.168)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (28:44.508)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (28:47.426)
that hamster wheel, but I hadn't thought of it from the serotonin perspective before. think I've heard other people talk about, but it's kind of making a bit more sense today. The, so how can somebody, obviously we want to improve the microbiome, but specific from a motility perspective, I remember doing a post. It was my, like, I truly had a viral post. This is the only one that was like truly viral. And I think it's at like almost eight and a half million views now.
Anu Simh (28:52.062)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (29:12.936)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (29:16.992)
Of a blue poo, the blue poo test. it was basically using blue food coloring to tell you what your transit time is. So does transit time relate to motility and is, mean, I'm not, people are got all up in arms. Why are you getting people to consume blue food diet? And I, I know it's not ideal, but it's a test and it's not, I'm not saying it's healthy for your gut per se, but they're trying to find a benign substance that wasn't going to influence digestion to get a real.
Anu Simh (29:23.582)
Yeah.
Yeah. definitely.
Anu Simh (29:41.522)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (29:46.614)
sense of how quickly things are moving through. So can you talk a little bit about what is what's motility versus transit time and what can we do to improve them?
Anu Simh (29:50.323)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (29:56.37)
Yeah, first of all, gut mortality is very, like a lot of people who are not constipated.
will think that their transit time is okay, but that's not true. So that's why doing the test, like I use, I have my clients use either beets because they're benign and the red shows up perfectly or corn. These are the two things that I use in my practice. And the blue is interesting though. Yeah. It's a party drink. Like get them excited. So, a good transit time. So to remember that we need to see like
Kim Vopni (30:21.954)
Yeah. It's like a party trick, right?
Anu Simh (30:32.854)
how much time food stays in each part of the digestion. Digestion doesn't just happen in the stomach, know, goes to this, you know, that whole digestive tract going into the small intestine and finally reaching your colon where it can sit for a longer time, you know, before it clears as feces. So a good transit time is anywhere from 18 to 24 hours. Anything more than 24 hours is a sluggish transit time.
anything less than 18 hours could be considered malabsorption in some circles. So I see this a lot, even in people who claim that they have good perfect bowel movements every single day, the peristalsis action could be slowed down because of many reasons. It could be hormonal, it could be that serotonin effect, it could be physiological,
could be so many reasons for it, but I largely see that it's diet, hydration, lack of exercise, know, the sedentary kind of person, you know, and these are the things that really seem to affect gut motility. And so there are many things to do. Fiber, for example, is super important and really understanding the difference between soluble fiber and insoluble fiber.
and the roles that they play in gut motility is important. Fluids are very important, hydration is very important, fitness or exercise is very important. I mean these are things that play a huge role in gut motility and I think you probably focus a lot on exercise and I've seen that even just certain kinds of yogic positions make such a big
Kim Vopni (32:20.622)
you
Anu Simh (32:32.574)
difference. Sometimes I have to really tell my clients that, you know how your kid was potty trained? We are going to potty train you. Because it's really understanding how to squat, how to, you know, even just doing that squats, even half squats really make a huge difference in some of my clients and their constipation.
Kim Vopni (32:41.442)
Yeah, like, yeah, I say that too.
Kim Vopni (32:55.234)
Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned soluble and insoluble. you, I think of soluble as like the sweeper. It's the one that is usually absorbing a little bit more and the insoluble is kind of not absorbing it. It's just like the roughage that passes through. How would you describe the difference between the two of them?
Anu Simh (33:15.753)
Right.
I would describe it just exactly like what you said. Insoluble is like the one that especially if you're constipated, you need to take more off because it bulks the stool. And having that difference, knowing that difference between which one is bulking you and which one is more like viscous and just, because the soluble fiber helps you in so many other ways. It really helps you with, know, like cholesterol issues and so many other things that it's good to take a happy mix of both.
and increasing your prebiotics. So fibers don't mean just like beans and lentils, but prebiotic foods like onions, artichoke, asparagus, they're all so high in prebiotic fibers and they also have enough insoluble fiber that it really helps with things like constipation.
Kim Vopni (34:09.784)
Yeah, okay. One thing, another part that you've talked about is serotonin, melatonin, which sort of aligns with our circadian rhythm, which the gut plays a role with that as well. And a lot of times, just by like, when I'm communicating with my community, it's about waking up with the sun, seeing the light, but also leaving yourself time in your morning to poop, because we're always...
rushing, we wake up and we frantically have to do all these things that get out the door maybe or whatever we need to do and we don't leave ourselves time for that sort of rest and digest. So can you talk a little bit about the circadian rhythm piece as it pertains to the gut microbiome?
Anu Simh (34:36.882)
Russian, Yeah.
Anu Simh (34:53.3)
Yeah.
The interesting thing about the gut microbiome is it has a circadian rhythm just like us. It's diurnal 24-hour cycle. They pretty much follow the same cycle that we do. You know, they have respect for, you know, waking up in the morning, digesting at a certain time, going to bed at a certain time. So just like when we do not follow our diurnal patterns and we erratic eat or eat later at night,
we have to face the consequences the next day and some research shows that when even one day of poor sleep can may have you eat up to 400 calories more the next day of junk food, not the real healthy kind of you know, hedonic foods. So and our gut microbiome pretty much behaves the same way. They have the same diurnal clock and so if we do not respect that and then
they have that can lead to imbalanced guts. You know you could have more systemic inflammation you know the you know I think people have heard about leaky gut or the intestinal permeability that can increase and we can have a lot of these you know LPS or lipopolysaccharides and endotoxin entering your bloodstream and causing that systemic inflammation which can in turn
worsen your visceral fat and your fat cells holding onto toxins. So many ramifications from just that. So it's very important to kind of respect that circadian rhythm of the gut, I think.
Kim Vopni (36:42.382)
I hadn't thought of the gut having its own rhythm. I sort of felt like it was indirectly part of the big circadian rhythm, but it has its own rhythm.
Anu Simh (36:47.156)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (36:53.298)
Yeah.
It has its own worth. Yeah, very much like ours. And you know, in our way, for example, which is Eastern Indian lifestyle medicine, we look at eating as like the our biggest meal with the sun, like with the high noon, you know, because that's when the digestive fire is at its peak and we are able to digest the most, absorb the most nutrients, you know. And a lot of times we are so busy taking supplements or
Kim Vopni (37:01.39)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (37:18.84)
Mm-hmm.
Anu Simh (37:25.078)
We think it's not just about the food that we eat, but it's about what we absorb. And that's where the gut microbiome plays such an integral part. It's really helping us in so many ways. mean, think about bone health, for example. How can we even imagine that the gut microbiome is connected to bone health? Yes, from an estrogen perspective, when estrogen tanks, your bone health takes a beating and we've all heard that. But even from a perspective of gut, there are certain
groups that are so amazingly incredible at creating or helping these osteoblasts, you know, and helping with bone health rather than bone loss. So imagine losing these bacteria that are so good at helping us with bone health and with autophagy, know, with clearing out all of that stuff. And if you don't have these players, we are going to have more of that bone loss.
and so it's not just about hormones but it's also about the big role that the microbiome plays in
Kim Vopni (38:25.283)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (38:33.518)
So you mentioned the word osteoblasts, which I always think of the B, osteoblast for building. So osteoblasts are what are the bone building cells. Is that correct? And then, so we want to, as you're talking, the gut microbiome will help feed the osteoblasts. Okay.
Anu Simh (38:44.37)
Yeah, yeah.
Anu Simh (38:53.811)
Yeah.
So the gut microbiome helps by the production of or having these bacteria that are really good at supporting, you know, I wouldn't say creating, but supporting. That's all we know for now is supporting these osteoblasts. know, I mean, just that is an incredible amount of support for bone health. So when we think about bone health, we just think about calcium and vitamin D. But it's not about the vitamin D or the calcium
Kim Vopni (39:08.674)
Got it. Yep.
Anu Simh (39:25.138)
that we take in, but it's about what we absorb and that's where the gut microbiome plays a huge role.
Kim Vopni (39:28.013)
So.
Kim Vopni (39:32.162)
Yeah. How can we, maybe I'll say diversity, how can we improve absorption? So how can we make sure that what we are consuming is being absorbed and distributed to where we need it to go?
Anu Simh (39:47.592)
You know, think food is important, but what we eat is important, but when we eat and how we eat are equally important.
This is just not me saying it, it's science and there's many, many studies coming out now that talk about the importance of mindful eating and how we support that. Because when you eat slowly and we put our fork down and we take a minute to appreciate what we've just taken in, that gives the brain enough time, I think it's like 20 minutes lag time in getting the message that you
full. Imagine if you're able to put your fork down just that putting your fork down and chewing mindfully the chances of us overeating are way less.
Kim Vopni (40:42.424)
Yeah, I am. I'm guilty of being a very fast eater and I'm trying to slow down. I was actually just at a retreat in Mexico where it, the, cooking was all Ayurvedic. So as you're saying, we, the biggest meal was, the biggest meals there was two, I'd say breakfast and lunch were quite large and then dinner was a little bit less. It was all vegetarian. We were all pooping multiple times a day.
Anu Simh (40:52.82)
Mm-hmm.
Anu Simh (41:06.066)
Yeah
Kim Vopni (41:06.838)
Part of it, of course, for on retreat, we're relaxed, but we had our very much a circadian rhythm and what we were bringing in was important. However, I've known that I'm a fast eater and I've always said, I'm going to try to chew more. But I very concertedly made a concerted effort during this past week to slow down, put my fork down, thank my food, realize that, like, be grateful for the energy that this
Anu Simh (41:35.442)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (41:36.024)
the fed, everything's energy and this food is energy and it's grown to feed us. And so I've just kind of, I just eat and I don't even really think about it. And so now it's really shifting my mind to slow down and trying to put my fork down.
Anu Simh (41:43.718)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So did you find out what your doshas? I think you're about that, right? Yeah.
Kim Vopni (41:54.294)
Yes, I think and I've had another woman on the podcast who is an Ayurvedic practitioner and we talked about and she was saying, yeah, that with a bit of it.
Anu Simh (42:01.586)
Yeah, so for Avata for example, and you have that Pitta energy too, but...
Kim Vopni (42:06.413)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (42:07.73)
I think you're largely about that, you know, which is where all your brilliant ideas, you know, there's a lot of, there's no good or bad dosha. It is what it is. I'm about the two. And for us, that's slowing down, especially eating really super important because we are naturally our bodies constipate because of the air element in us. So we need to be extra careful about that. Eating some good fats, extra virgin olive oil, ghee, if you can, you know, handle that and your cholesterol.
Kim Vopni (42:23.65)
Mm-hmm.
Anu Simh (42:37.854)
is fine and combining like bitter compounds with you know like like I know we eat a lot of salads with and all very good but for a vata person steaming sometimes is really important yeah the warmth is important so even just take them a little bit I maybe an example could be cabbage right when you think about all the incredible things cabbage does for us you know cabbage
Kim Vopni (42:55.022)
See ya.
Anu Simh (43:07.574)
produces glucoraphanin, you know, and then even just a simple thing of overcooking it can kill that glucoraphanin and then if you don't chew it properly you're not producing an enzyme called myrosinase and if those two are not that mechanical act of chewing does not crush the cabbage we're not producing some unhealthy compound called sulforaphane that is really
anti-cancer and so many different things. So I mean I look back him and I think of my grandma and my grandpa they were so into food and stuff. I remember they always had cabbage with a sprinkle of mustard powder and it's not that they knew at the time that the mustard powder is acting like the myrosinase and we are getting the sulforaphane. My grandma never told me that but she said if you add this you're not going to be as gassy.
Kim Vopni (44:02.082)
Yeah.
Anu Simh (44:07.414)
you're going to digest the cabbage better. But so there's that ancient wisdom, right? You know, that comes from the... we have lost, yeah.
Kim Vopni (44:14.2)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which we've lost, as you say, you know, we have this convenience stuff and yeah, yeah, so interesting. Yeah, it was, it was, I'm grateful for the experience. It was the first time I had ever attended a retreat just for myself. I, I've spoken at retreats and, and been able to experience it, but it's always been sort of work related. And this was really truly just for myself. And I noticed the differences very soon, very quickly. So now it's about keeping that going in your.
Anu Simh (44:31.24)
He
Anu Simh (44:44.114)
Yeah, it's just, yeah, you did ask about what should people eat or do as a first step.
Kim Vopni (44:44.15)
every day of right? Yeah.
Kim Vopni (44:50.882)
Heheh
Anu Simh (44:54.14)
I think definitely eating fiber along with your protein is super important, definitely. Being mindful of your circadian rhythm is really important. And for a postmenopausal woman, no question, paying attention to your gut, maybe even just getting like a baseline test to see where you're at. And then if you do have that estrogen dominance, or you don't have the right players,
Kim Vopni (44:59.822)
Mm-hmm.
Anu Simh (45:24.054)
become very strategic in how you start building it. know, have a system, you know, to...
Kim Vopni (45:28.782)
Would it be a GI map test that you would use or do you have another one that you recommend?
Anu Simh (45:34.836)
I personally prefer something that's like shotgun sequencing, whole genome. mean, my whole philosophy is don't really go after the bad guys. Build the good guys so they do the job of destroying the bad guys. So that's my personal philosophy and one that is supported by science, I think, you know. And so I use biomefx in my practice, but tiny health does the same thing. There's quite a few out there.
Kim Vopni (46:03.534)
Mm-hmm.
Anu Simh (46:04.8)
So when I get a test like that and for my weight, my clients who come to me for weight loss or weight regain, we look at the whole picture. We see who's missing, who's not there and how we can, and even from day one, it's all about feeding the microbiome. And then of course there's another aspect to it. I mean, today is Zempig is such a huge blockbuster drug, mainly because of the food addiction and that food chapter. And we can't ignore that. Brain centric being brain.
centric in your approach to this is also important. And reframing your mindset, know, just really knowing how to, you know, think about it in a, because we have about 60,000 negative thoughts every day. So what about what if we just look at it in a positive angle, every single, every single step, every single thought that we have around food, if we can just reframe that, we're just going to have a better conversation about ourselves, about bodies.
and about lifelong health, you know.
Kim Vopni (47:05.102)
Where can people find, you mentioned you've written a book, where can people find that and also find out more about your work and connect with you?
Anu Simh (47:17.182)
Well my book is launching April 22nd but it's ready for pre-order on my website and my website is 9armsofwellness.com and my Instagram is also 9armsofwellness.
Kim Vopni (47:34.22)
Amazing. And I'll have the links in the show notes there for everybody. Dr. Sim, thank you so much. This was so, I learned so much. I feel like, you know, not that I'm a gut health expert, but I've spoken to a lot of people and every time I do, I still learn something new. And, and yeah, so thankful for everything that you do and share and how you support women.
Anu Simh (47:41.396)
Thank
Anu Simh (47:49.064)
Yeah.
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Kim. It's just pleasure.
