Kim Vopni (00:01.186)
Hi Jodi, welcome. I am looking forward to this conversation. I have been, I dabble in essential oils. I love essential oils. I don't necessarily know all the magical ways to use them. And when I first met you, it was at a conference and you were sponsoring and you were speaking and then we became fast friends and hung out and I just am fascinated by everything that you share. And you graciously gave me a bottle of your lymph.
blend that I use religiously every morning and I do the lymph massage with your blend. But I'm still so curious about so many other ways that you teach people to use essential oils. So can you please start out by just telling us who you are and what brought you to the world of essential oils?
Jodi Cohen (00:51.775)
Absolutely. My name is Jody Cohen and I actually founded my own essential oil company. It's called Vibrant Blue Oils and they are primarily essential oil blends because like you, I am so sorry my dog walker is here to walk my dog. So they're going to be a little noisy for a second and then it will be quiet again. I apologize. Thank you. I'm on a podcast so.
Kim Vopni (01:06.254)
Have dogs.
Ha
you
No problem.
Jodi Cohen (01:20.489)
They're so excited to see her. Do you want me to start over or just? All right. If you can keep them for like 40 minutes, that'd be amazing. were you talking to me? Yeah, I'm on a podcast. I'm sorry. We're going to, when you leave, we'll restart. Thank you.
Kim Vopni (01:24.749)
Yeah, sure. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (01:41.4)
No problem.
Jodi Cohen (01:42.216)
Okay.
Kim Vopni (01:44.078)
So if you want to, yeah, you just start, yeah, just start with how you, whatever you want to start with.
Jodi Cohen (01:46.847)
I'll start from the beginning.
Jodi Cohen (01:53.151)
So my name is Jody Cohen and I am the founder of Vibrant Blue Oils and we create proprietary blends of essential oils. We basically take the guesswork out of it. For those of you that don't know, essential oils are the concentrated essences of plants and over 50 % of pharmaceutical drugs are derived from plants. White willow bark is now aspirin, valerian root is valerium and I did a ton of research. I actually wrote a book, Essential Oils to Boost the Brain and Heal the Body and the reason I
do blends is because blends are more powerful than single oils and most of the research focuses on blends. Many people know that lavender is helpful for sleep. All the research on lavender is lavender in combination with other plants. So I find that oils are a more accessible way to assimilate the remedy. You know, most people are ingesting remedies. You can just smell oils. People don't realize no cells are brain cells. This is the fastest way to get things into
brain and then the skin is the largest organ and topically applying especially for systems like the lymphatic system and the fascia system that lies so close to the surface. It's just a nice complement. It's natural. It's easy. It's pretty
non-invasive and inexpensive. And so I just feel like your program, I feel like the more you can kind of layer modalities that support each other, you can go biking. If you're biking in the rain, it's harder. If you're biking uphill, it's harder. What I try to do is make it so that you're biking downhill in the perfect sunny day so that it's easier. Thank you.
Kim Vopni (03:30.926)
Yeah, that's a good analogy. So the you just mentioned the nose cells or brain cells and just by smelling can have a therapeutic effect. Are there particular smells or scents or as you say, you've made blends. Are there particular blends that would elicit a specific response?
Jodi Cohen (03:57.167)
Yes, there's a lot of research about kind of the constituents, the medicinal properties of different plants. For example, there's a constituent called sesquiterpines that's popular in frankincense and sandalwood that's kind of known to oxygenate. It crosses the blood brain barrier. So the blood brain barrier is kind of like your brain's security system. And it's designed to only let like super small fat soluble molecules through. It's actually thinner through the nasal passageways than elsewhere in the brain.
of challenges of healing today is that it's really hard to get the right remedy into the right area of the brain. It needs to be the right size and shape. You know, like you can't do chemo in the brain because the chemo particles can't pass through the brain. And so just the mechanism of action, like there's a reason that they do anesthesia through the nose. There's a reason that cocaine is snorted through the nose. It's the most efficient pathway to get things into the brain. And so if you're trying to get constituents that are known to anti-inflame, you know, like Ginger.
frankincense dill, you know, because you have brain inflammation. That's a really easy way. You know, we talk about omega-3 fatty acids as being brain food. The reason they're brain food is because they're the right size, shape and consistency to actually get into the brain. If the ambulance can't get to the scene of the accident, it's not going to save any lives. No matter how good a remedy is, if it can't get into the brain, it's not going to do much. And so that's one reason, like I think smell of your five senses, it's kind of the most powerful and the most underutilized.
You know, forget, like smell is critical to survival. This is why smell has such a strong like emotional component. We all have that smell, you know, that takes us back in time. For me, it's like mothballs reminds me of my grandparents' apartment. Blackberries reminds me of, you know, my childhood summers. Like, do you smell you love?
Kim Vopni (05:43.16)
Yeah
Kim Vopni (05:49.13)
Yeah. Raspberries is the one every time I, if I macerate raspberries, it reminds me of being a kid and picking raspberries in my aunt's garden.
Jodi Cohen (05:58.399)
That's exactly how I feel. Blackberries go pretty wild. Well, both in British Columbia and Seattle. I feel like it's August in the 80s. It's just amazing.
Kim Vopni (06:06.36)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jodi Cohen (06:07.987)
But it's interesting. It's because the sense of smell goes directly to the limbic system. The other four senses have to go through the thalamus first. And that's because we smell food. We smell water. We smell predator odor. We smell fire. People in palisades are saying now, whenever they smell smoke, they're having a different reaction because it's triggering that survival instinct. And so what's nice about oils, and your original question was, are certain constituents good for the brain? Absolutely.
Kim Vopni (06:27.758)
you
Jodi Cohen (06:37.961)
Certain oils, kind of depending on where they're derived, like a lot of people talk about citrus oils, like bergamot, neroli are kind of the popular ones, but it could be lemon, it could be orange. They're very light, they're very uplifting, they have very small molecules, and so just smelling them feels refreshing. It makes you feel better, it makes you feel clean. There's a reason that they use those scents in a lot of cleaning products.
A lot of the oils that are derived from plants like sandalwood, frankincense, cedarwood, they're all very kind of grounding and stabilizing and they have a lot of anti-anxiety properties. The floral ones like rose, jasmine, lavender, they're all kind of like uplifting and tend to make you, they're better for depression, whereas the citrus ones are great for anxiety. There are a lot of medicinal properties that are associated
with different plants. And what I'm trying to do is kind of based on working with clinicians and as a clinician recognizing like, you know, no one needs a better vitamin D. That's been done well. But things like helping people regulate their nervous system and calm, you know, their either anticipatory stress or trauma, historic stress, just kind of calming their system. Sleeping, you know, falling asleep, sleeping through the night, garbage in, garbage out.
making sure, you know, we're mostly water, we're a big aquarium. If the aquarium gets dirty, the fish die, you know, and in order for our aquarium to stay clean, we have to move our lymph. Our fascia works with our lymph. Sometimes it wraps around our lymph and constricts our lymph and impedes the movement. So the more everything just kind of opens up and allows for more space, the easier it is for things to move, the good things to move in and the bad things to move out.
Kim Vopni (08:26.734)
Cool. Okay, so I want to ask about the lymphatic system and you have a specific lymph blend. So what is the lymphatic system and why is it important? And then the add-on to that is how does your blend help?
Jodi Cohen (08:42.835)
Yeah, the lymphatic system is basically the sewage system from the body. You know, it drains, it starts, the cells release, they have to know that they're safe to kind of release the garbage because if, you know, it prioritizes survival and if you think you're in danger, why do you need to detoxify? You might die in the next moment. So your nervous system has to kind of shift into that parasympathetic safety response. And then they release the toxins into the fascia, into the lymph, the lymph then carries it to the blood, to the liver, the gall,
the gut, the toilet, and leaves your body. And if the lymph, the lymph doesn't really have its own pump, it's really, you know, walking moves lymph, anything you do like yoga that puts your arms above the head, lymphatic drainage, which is basically there are certain points where there are clusters of lymph nodes and that's where the congestion can occur. It's kind of the big bottlenecks in the body. There are six main ones. It's the clavicles along the neck, under the arms. When these arms get congested, the toxins can flow back
into the breast and that can cause problems. The gut, about 50 % of the lymph is in the gut. The inguinal along the hip areas and this correlates to pelvic health and then behind the knees. And so what does the lymph formula do? It just kind of greases the wheel more. It's designed with oils that are known for kind of movement and vasodilation expansion. So it's a little bit like, you know, greasing the wheels. Your bike, you know, runs better if the tires are full of air. It's just making sure that everything
moves properly and also I've noticed that a lot of people, there's a lot of that I don't know what to do or I'm afraid I'm going to do it wrong so I'm just going to do nothing kind of idea on this planet and I think people get really worried especially with the lymph you know a hundred percent of the lymph drains through the clavicle points and so even just topically applying this you don't you don't need to massage it the right way there's no right there's no wrong way if you just do this like put it on your clavicles put it on your neck put it on these big six points that helps.
Kim Vopni (10:19.96)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (10:42.35)
Mm-hmm.
Jodi Cohen (10:42.465)
It's like putting on your sneakers and just walking out your door. That helps if you want to then walk another 10 minutes or go for another 10 miles. It's up to you, but it's just a starting point that helps.
Kim Vopni (10:53.666)
Yeah, I love that. And yeah, as I said, I since I guess it's since January. No, when did you get that to me? You get that to me in in September. Yeah, in September. And I didn't start using it right away. So I would say probably the last like four or five months religiously every morning I wake up and I and I do that I think of you every morning when I'm doing it. So yeah, so but yes, I a lot of
Jodi Cohen (11:03.113)
Timber, yeah.
Jodi Cohen (11:14.217)
Thank you.
Kim Vopni (11:17.708)
And lot of people will use rebounders, but it's the motion of the body that is helping stimulate the lymph, which is really, as you've just explained it, it's kind of like that's the first step to getting the toxins and everything to where it needs to go to get eliminated from the body. Yeah. Yeah.
Jodi Cohen (11:32.679)
Exactly, exactly. It's kind of like yelling a fire in a crowded movie theater and not opening the exit doors. You people are going to run around and not leave. So if you're not making sure those bottlenecks are clear, you know, you have to kind of open those emergency doors so that everyone can get out.
Kim Vopni (11:37.986)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (11:47.288)
Right, okay. With regards, you've said another word that I want to talk about, which is fascia, which is the fascial system in the body, the connective tissue in the body, the webbing, and you also gave me a fascia blend. Now, I have a two-part question to this because I will tell you, I don't love the smell of the fascia blend. So if you don't love the smell of something, does it change the response in your body?
Jodi Cohen (12:13.759)
That's a great question. I generally say yes. I generally think like, would you ever eat something that you didn't think smelled good? I think that we have such innate intelligence that you're drawn to what you need. And what I found with oils is it's interesting. Like if something shifts and at some point you need it, it will smell differently to you.
Kim Vopni (12:31.678)
interesting. Okay, I'll keep trying. So why is it like what, how is the what, yes, what's in the lymph, sorry, what's in the fascia blend and how is that helping fascia? So I'm thinking about it as tightness if there was restrictions in the fascia. So if you have, if you've had an injury to like a blunt injury or cut injury to fascia and it's now lost its juiciness, it's, it's kind of
in this stuck position we want to free that up and we can do that with movement and massage and so how would your fascia blend support that as well?
Jodi Cohen (13:10.707)
Yeah, fascia is a little bit of the great frontier that we don't know as much about as we might in about five or 10 years. There's a lot of physical elements, and there are a lot of physical oils in the blend that help with kind of like adding space, like vasodilation, heat, allowing for heat and movement and flow.
There are also some emotional ones in here, like Angelica, that kind of help you move and shift emotions. One thing that I've really been delving into kind of the emotional aspect of healing, and one thing that I've noticed, there are a couple of things that I'm just now processing that I probably could have processed decades ago, but I do think that there is a time and a place and that your body is smarter than you are. And sometimes when you're not, it can be a lot of work. And sometimes when you're not ready to go there,
Like why open Pandora's box or stir the hornet's nest? So I think that's another reason that sometimes we just know we're not ready. And so if you start to smell it and unravel things that you're not ready, it's like cleaning out the cupboard, right? It's gonna take time and you're either gonna need to find another place for it or throw it away or something. Why make it messy or if it's fine the way it is?
Kim Vopni (14:21.656)
Right, okay, I like that analogy. With bladder health, you talked like the lymph and the fascia could potentially be both be beneficial around. So you mentioned the inguinal part of the bodies from a lymph perspective. How else could we support bladder health or even uterine health, menstrual? Like I think of the menstrual cycle, womb health.
The reproductive system that's a that's a big question and there may be multiple things that you would recommend But how can we support our our womb and sort of our center?
Jodi Cohen (14:57.055)
Well, there's a lot there and it really does go with our root chakra, which is safety, right? And so how does our body know that we're safe? There are a lot of, know, so much of our sensory information is kind of indicating you're safe, you're not safe. And it's not just the potential line that might be chasing someone down some street somewhere. I personally have never seen a line chasing anyone down a street, but I've definitely experienced that moment where I turn on the news and something's scary. It's usually a school shooting or something that I'm like, my God, could that happen to my kids?
neighborhood. whatever is happening that's bad in the world, I somehow personalize and in my body, in my brain, it's happening to me in that moment. And so what people don't realize is that our safety gauge isn't just measuring like physical safety, it's also taking in emotional safety, potential threats. And whenever we have that experience where we watch the news and suddenly we get scared, what's happening in our body is that our parasympathetic branch of our nervous system, our fight or flight system is getting activated. And even though
you know, this tragedy might be happening across the country. In our body, we're preparing to fight back or flee if it happened to us. And so resources are allocated towards survival. Blood is routed towards the arms and the limbs and away from the core, away from the uterus, because that doesn't matter in survival. And so the way to switch out of that, that is the sympathetic branch of your nervous system, the fight or flight branch. And we're trying to kind of gear shift from fight or flight into safety, which is the parasympathetic branch.
of our nervous system. And it is our vagus nerve, cranial nerve number 10, that is literally the gear shift. It connects the brain to the body. starts at the base of the skull, right back here, splits, winds around both sides behind the earlobe on the mastoid bone, and then through every organ of digestion and detoxification, including the reproductive organs. So there are now on the market a bunch of vagus nerve stimulating devices. You can wear them on the ear. You can wear them on the wrist. We have a blend that we call parasympathetic.
It's literally just clove, which is super stimulatory and high in a healing constituent called eugenol and lime, which has super small molecules. So it allows for super quick absorption. And we teach people to topically apply it on the vagus nerve, on the mastoid bone. And what that does is it sends that safety signal throughout your body, you know, and in your bladder, your root chakra is really your connection to the earth. And am I safe? Am I not safe? And so I found, you know, and even they talk about like when you're nervous, you peel.
Jodi Cohen (17:26.665)
lot, know, and you're just all the things that could go on do go on. So the more you can send safety signals to your body, the more your bladder knows it's safe and kind of you can't even get pregnant if you're, you know, stressed. So it's that kind of messaging.
Kim Vopni (17:40.654)
Interesting. I'm thinking like as you were pointing out that point too, it's close to where you were also talking about the lymph. So if you, you like, could you put parasympathetic and the fascia blend or the lymph at the same time?
Jodi Cohen (17:51.773)
Yes.
Jodi Cohen (17:57.171)
Yes. Well, a little insight into my life. So I've had lots of stress in my life and I thought I was just working on the vagus nerve. So I'm doing everything I can think of to stimulate the vagus nerve. And then I become friends with a very...
accomplished practitioner Dr. Christine Schaffner who treats chronically ill clients and you so much of what's going on with chronically ill clients is that their their lymphatics are overwhelmed and so there is more you know toxins, viruses, that whole stew like metals, mold, everything to drain than they can actually accomplish and so she started taking sonograms of people's neck because there are like a third of our lymph nodes are in our neck and it gets really congested and you know she works with people with metal in their
mouth and amalgams, which also leads to lymph drainage problems. She was finding that the lymph nodes were pushing into the vagus nerve. Like think of if you've ever been in the middle seat in an airplane between two linebackers, know, good luck reading a book. Like you can't even move your elbows, right? So your vagus nerve is kind of strangled by the lymph. It's not draining. So what she started doing was really helping people to drain the clavicles, the neck. All of a sudden this gave the vagus nerve more space. There's also some research
Kim Vopni (18:58.446)
Yeah.
Jodi Cohen (19:15.297)
a Tufts Neuroscientist named Michael Van Eckler discovered the vagus nerve infection hypothesis. And the idea is this, that if the vagus nerve is kind of trapped with congested lymph that has trapped toxins, you know, or so many of the toxins are in the mouth, they drain along the trigeminal nerve, which intersects with the vagus nerve, it sits too long. You know, think of that dirty fish tank where it sits and then the fish gets sick. All of a sudden the vagus nerve is uptaking these toxins and you get like vagus nerve toxicity.
And so now it's not signaling it throws everything else off So the neck is really the terrain that you know the bladder is amazing the whole pelvis area is amazing But the neck is another really important area You know and then the third factor that our friend Kelly Kennedy taught me is that the fascia? Wraps around all of this and again like squeezes and congestes. You know we brace for impact You know there's a reason that fetal pose or think of when your kids were little and you're following them around the pool like don't drown you
Kim Vopni (20:14.968)
Mm-hmm.
Jodi Cohen (20:15.073)
you're kind of always like hunched over in this protective mode and then the danger passes and you don't say like, I can like unravel my lymph. And so that's compressing too. So there are numerous factors at play in your neck that make it harder for your vagus nerve to signal and kind of interact with keeping you stuck in that danger response.
Kim Vopni (20:36.576)
As you're talking and pointing out the points and into the jaw, I'm also thinking of the connection with the jaw and the pelvis and the tension. if we have this, so we're not, we don't have the lymph draining. We've got things clogged up and influencing the vagus nerve. We're not getting into that parasympathetic state. And we have this tension from whatever reason that's also going to be contributing to. Yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting. Okay.
Jodi Cohen (20:59.752)
It's a danger.
Jodi Cohen (21:04.799)
Yeah, well, and I personally, that's fascinating because I've done an insane amount of work around my jaw and my neck and my hips were always so, tight and they're getting looser. And I do think it's, know, top down, bottom up, it's a combination.
Kim Vopni (21:18.05)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all connected. It's all connected. What about, so I'm now post menopause. There's, I've seen other people talking about using herbs and essential oils in ways to support some perimenopause or menopause symptoms. So it's not going to come in and necessarily, it's not going to replace your hormones, but what effect is it having? like, how is it actually helping?
symptoms that could be associated with the menopause transition.
Jodi Cohen (21:50.697)
Yeah, it really helps, you know, a lot of, for me, menopause, you know, it,
As your ovaries start to shut down and make less estrogen, your adrenal glands take over and kind of supplement. So supporting the adrenal glands, we actually have an adrenal blend that I also find helps with the pelvis because, you know, there are two adrenal glands that sit on top of the kidneys and sometimes one is more overactive and somehow that twerks the pelvis a little bit. So your low back gets a little twerked. So I've noticed one way that I test this, I do yoga. So I like sometimes do tree pose and just count.
How long can I hold it on one leg? How long can I hold it on the other? It's always more on one side than the other. And then I'll put our adrenal blend on the low back and redo it. And I've noticed I can hold it a lot longer and it's a lot more balanced because, one of the tests that I learned when I was kind of getting a degree in nutritional therapy, checking the adrenals, you kind of check leg length. And if one leg is like shorter than the other, that's because the pelvis is kind of twerked. And so you test different remedies to see if you can get the leg
length the same and basically what you're doing is kind of balancing the two adrenals and then balancing the pelvis. So that's one that I have found really helps with menopause. terms of symptoms, rose geranium is great for hot flashes. It's just a lot of it is heat, right? That's why you sometimes feel so angry. You know, and the liver is correlate. The other aspect of hormonal support is your liver gallbladder kind of eliminates the old hormones, but sometimes, you know, if it's not
eliminating as effectively it recycles them. So estrogen dominance is just the estrogen that isn't being detoxified that's then being
Jodi Cohen (23:33.875)
reabsorbed, so anything you can do to kind of support your liver, your gallbladder. And then energetically, I've heard that menopause is kind of a period of transmutation, right? You're transmuting the past. So all of this anger, you know, as women, we're good girls, we're nice, we put other people in front of ourselves, we don't complain, if we're angry, we just stuff it. Suddenly, we just can't keep doing it. So it just starts to kind of, that heat leaks out. And so things that are really kind of cooling and soothing, like support,
the lymph, making sure that the garbage leaves, know, releasing the fascia so that tension that we don't express externally that we kind of keep internally, it just helps to unravel and naturally, you know, you don't need to re-experience all your trauma, just kind of let it go.
Kim Vopni (24:19.566)
When you were talking about the back and the adrenals, so there was a, there's several studies, but one in particular by Canadian physical therapist, pelvic floor physical therapist, she did a research study that looked at low back pain and pelvic floor dysfunction and women, over 95 % of women with low back pain have some form of pelvic floor dysfunction. So now as you're talking, I'm wondering about the role of the adrenals there. And so as an expansion on that and
kind of coming back to, you you were saying you put the Vegas, the nerve, the parasympathetic behind the ears. Does it matter? So would you put the adrenals on your back by the adrenals or does it matter where you put the oil on your body for it to have the effect that we want?
Jodi Cohen (24:54.303)
Yeah.
Jodi Cohen (25:07.027)
The short answer is no.
But I do tend to put it either on the low back or if people can't reach that kind of, you know, two inches out, two inches up from the belly button. There are also some points on the feet. I think that no matter what you do, it will work because it's kind of a frequency match. But I think that by putting it on the low back, it's almost like adding that layer of intention. You know, like when you do an affirmation, the more you can kind of layer. I think the body really does do what you want it to do. And I think that the more clear and the more ways you can
communicate that and I also think that we as women we sometimes have like our undermining subconscious self-sabotaging messages so I think it just makes it a more direct communication but it doesn't need to be exactly there you can smell it you can put it on the bottom of feed it really it will work no matter where you put it.
Kim Vopni (25:55.8)
Yeah. What about ingesting? know that there are some that you can ingest and some that you can't. There are some that you need to have diluted with oil and some that you could technically have just the pure essential oil on its own. What makes something able to be ingested or able to be put directly on the skin without a carrier oil?
Jodi Cohen (26:16.091)
think that ingesting is the least efficient route because it has to go through the whole digestive system and be systemic. I actually think that inhalation is by far the most effective and if we're being honest, it will last the longest. You know, if you want to need to reorder oil and spend more money, dump it in your water and drink it or diffuse it 24-7. If you want to just get a strong benefit, smell it or topically apply it in terms of if you need to dilute it, certain oils are known as being like hot.
You know like oregano, thyme, rosemary, cloves, cinnamon. And what that means is if you put a little dab on your skin, it might turn red, it might feel warm. If this happens, remember oil and water don't mix. What you would do is take any cooking oil in your kitchen, know, coconut oil, olive oil, and just dilute it that way. And so I always tell people to test. Because we're taking the guesswork out and we're ready-made, we've already diluted it with fractionated coconut oil. Different carrier oils have different benefits. Fractionated coconut
Jodi Cohen (27:25.021)
So, what carrier oil you use kind of depends on what outcome you want. But in terms of when to dilute, I'm a big test don't guess girl. I always say like test a very small amount. If you get remotely red, dilute it and you know keep diluting until you don't get red. The bottom of the feet have more padding. That's a pretty safe place to
apply even the hot oils. And then in terms of ingestion, if you're working on something and you're working with a practitioner, oregano will kill things. And it might kill good things along with bad things. But there are certain situations where a practitioner might have you ingest that. It's not a try this at home, kids. I would work with somebody if you're going to do that. And there are reasons that it would be beneficial.
But in terms of, if you are going to try this at home, I've never really heard of anyone getting hurt from smelling something. Topically applying and diluting seems pretty safe. Ingesting is where it could be harmful.
Kim Vopni (28:32.684)
Yeah, yeah. I would say read your book because then you get a layer of education that helps people understand. So where can people find you, find your book and learn more about your amazing oils?
Jodi Cohen (28:44.789)
you're kind. My site is VibrantBlueOils. That is our hashtag for all media. And then the book is Essential Oils to Boost the Brain and Heal the Body. It is Random House published, so you can get it wherever books are sold.
Kim Vopni (28:59.854)
Amazing, amazing. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. This is really cool. I, as I said, I, I actually, I need to get your book. I don't have your book yet. And, I, I, I'm always curious and I love, I love holistic approaches. I love natural healing and essential oils is something that, as I said, I've kind of dabbled in, but I really want to learn more about, and be more consistent, I would say. So I have been very consistent with the lymph and, and I love it. So thank you for,
Jodi Cohen (29:07.135)
Oh, I'll it to you.
Kim Vopni (29:28.96)
setting me on that path and I'm looking forward to learning more.
Jodi Cohen (29:33.171)
Thank you, and thank you for everything you do for pelvic health.
Kim Vopni (29:36.27)
You
