Kim Vopni (00:01.442)
Hi, Dr. Tina, thank you so much for joining me. Nice to see your smiling face.
Dr Tyna Moore (00:05.163)
Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm always happy to talk with you.
Kim Vopni (00:07.886)
I'm looking forward to it. And this is a topic I haven't had. I haven't talked about this on the podcast. It's something I do. I would say I get asked about a lot, but enough people there are people in my world who struggle with their weight body composition and it's usually there's a pelvic health element. So they have stopped exercising. They've stopped doing certain things. It's also going to be usually a menopause phase of life as well. Some people have been dabbling in peptides. Some are curious and so
I'm really excited about your knowledge and expertise in this area. But before we go down what we're gonna talk about, can you just introduce yourself? Who are you and how did you get into this world and all the other things you do with health and wellness?
Dr Tyna Moore (00:51.267)
Sure. So I, my name is Dr. Tina Moore. I'm a naturopathic physician, licensed naturopathic physician, and I'm a chiropractor as well. I have 30 years as of this year, I 30 years in the field of naturopathic medicine. Before I ever went to medical school, I was working with a just world-class naturopathic physician who sadly passed away. He was my mentor and I spent a long time with him. And that was all in the regenerative medicine space. That was my background. And so
helping people put their joints back together with natural solutions. So not using drugs or surgery, but injecting natural solutions, anything from dextrose to their own blood cells to their own stem cells. towards the tail end of my big clinical practice, I started getting into peptides in general for regenerative purposes, because they can help heal things up beautifully as an adjunctive tool in the tool belt.
And then fast forward through COVID and all those years, I'm in Oregon. So I got myself out of practice when COVID hit because it was loony tunes here and I just wasn't gonna participate. And so I was already sort of on my way out as my online business had been growing and I couldn't do both. I couldn't keep up with all of it. So that said, I launched my own podcast, The Dr. Tina Show and I was getting bombarded a few years later by my
podcast producer saying we have to do an episode on Ozempic and weight loss. And I was like, dude, I do not like talking about weight loss. I, my whole platform is metabolic health, muscle, hormones, menopause, perimenopause. And I am a big fan of strong over skinny. And that has always been my, you know, leading message, get strong, do all the things to get strong, which I know you're a big proponent of. And the other pieces tend to fall into place a whole lot better. And so weight loss is not a fun subject for me. And
started diving into the literature surrounding GLP ones, which is you might know them as ozempic, that's semaglutide, wegovi. And then the other big one is terzepotide. And the brand names of that are manjoro and ZetBound. And that's how folks may know them. There are peptides, they're called GLP one receptor agonists, and they're actually peptides. And all peptides are strings of amino acids bonded together by peptide bonds. then peptides
Dr Tyna Moore (03:10.858)
essentially the kindergarten version, peptides bonded together, make up proteins. And I quickly realized these are just peptides like all the other peptides I love. And I thought, how that's interesting. Why are they getting such a bad rap? And I started diving into the literature and there were droves, mountains of data.
going back 20 years showing all types of different implications on the body system wide that these peptides have an impact on well beyond weight loss and type two diabetes. They just happen to be FDA approved for weight loss and type two diabetes. And only the weight loss piece was FDA approved a few years ago. And that's really when I think the media, the functional medicine community and everybody else sort of went bonkers, which is interesting, right? Like I still haven't quite sorted out why everybody has such a strong opinion about how people choose to lose weight or not. But.
That said, these are peptides and they have been tweaked a little bit so that their half life is extended. We make them in our bodies. They are endogenously produced. So we make that our stomach produces them, our intestines produce them, something called, I'm sorry, not our stomach, our intestines, our L cells in our intestines produce GLP-1. And then there's regions of our brain that produce GLP-1. And there are receptors all throughout our body, including on our immune cells, if you can believe it. And there are a
there's just a litany of implications on the body systems. And so I started talking about it on my own podcast and it's since snowballed and here we are. So yeah.
Kim Vopni (04:35.566)
Yeah, interesting. Okay. So I had Nat Nidam on recently, we talked about peptides and learned exactly what you've just described. really short chains of amino acids and then put together, they can become protein. So you mentioned a couple of things there, the side of how people choose to lose weight is very controversial, but also that this was approved. So it's been recently approved for weight loss, but there was research.
and troves of research before that. And so what was it approved for before? What was it researched? What was it used for in research before it became approved for weight loss?
Dr Tyna Moore (05:16.204)
So it was originally discovered back in the 90s and discovered that we endogenously produce it ourselves. And I believe from what I have dug up, it was originally being looked at for neurogeneration, for neurologic impact on the brain. It also happened to have a profound impact on blood sugar handling and metabolic health. And so it was first approved for type 2 diabetes.
Now there's several generations of these peptides, GLP-1 agonists, this family of medications going back to exenitide being the earliest version. And that wasn't as compliant friendly because you had to take it, you had to inject it all the time. And so because of the size of this peptide, the oral versions up until recently haven't been quite as successful. It's come predominantly in injection form. And I really think that's why Big Pharma has a handle on it. The same company that brought insulin to the world brought us GLP-1s.
So that said, we've had several generations and each generation has gotten a little more elegant, less side effects, a bit more potent, a bit more effective. And I think that when we hear about GLP-1 agonist, most people are talking about semaglutide and terzepatide. And again, the brand name forms of them are the names that we all know. So semaglutide came out, I don't know, several years back, was FDA approved for type 2 diabetes as were the prior generations.
it just so happened to induce significant weight loss. And so terzepatide is a dual agonist. It's got GLP-1 agonism and it's got GIP agonism. So it's a little bit different impact on the body. Some say better. And I would say the studies show for weight loss and for several other impacts, yes, we're seeing better outcomes, but that doesn't mean we should throw out some, you know, semiglutide either in many cases that might be a more affordable version and works just great for folks. So either way,
the type two diabetes piece, it has been well studied. And it was not until the weight loss conversation started that everybody started really over hyping these terrible side effects that you hear about and blowing them way out of proportion. So we can get into that later, but that's a whole other piece of the combo that the minute I started researching them and realizing we were not being at all told the truth in essence about these peptides and that the side effects were being way over sensationalized.
Kim Vopni (07:10.133)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Tyna Moore (07:36.321)
And the fact that the functional medicine community was aligning with mainstream media in their messaging really raised my eyebrow. And after going through the past five years, my propaganda bullshit radar is quite attuned. And I realized very quickly, like, something is awry here. There's several industries that have a lot to lose by these peptides being on the market. So anyway.
Kim Vopni (07:48.206)
Yep. Yeah. Yep.
Kim Vopni (08:03.212)
Interesting.
Dr Tyna Moore (08:03.678)
It really made me double down. And then the most interesting part was when I first started talking about it, the pushback I got Kim was insane and it was over the top. And if I had not lived through the pushback of COVID days, I don't think I would have seen it or acknowledged it for what it was, but there was a lot of bot accounts coming in. I mean, I was well-versed in this because I was online with a big platform pushing back against the narrative the past five years. so interestingly,
to see almost the same kind of response was, it was a coordinated attack to silence me. And I was like, this is interesting. So of course I'm so insubordinate, I just doubled down and I dug in harder and I found more data. And now I have, you know, I've got a document inside my course. It's over 40 pages long of studies. It's crazy. The impact that these peptides have throughout the body, when done appropriately, when utilized appropriately, I think is just totally game changing.
Kim Vopni (08:38.818)
Hm. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (08:49.57)
Wow.
Kim Vopni (08:58.958)
Wow. Before we get down, want to definitely go down very deep into those rabbit holes. what does, you said GLP-1 and GIP-1? So GLP ozempic, GIP terzepatite.
Dr Tyna Moore (09:08.662)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Tyna Moore (09:15.426)
GIP with the GLP is terzepatite. So terzepatite has both of them. Semiglutide only has the GLP one. And these are just signaling peptide hormones. We have a whole symphony of signaling peptide hormones in our body. Some other ones that people might be familiar with, insulin, leptin, ghrelin. There's several of them, not to get too sciency. And they all work together in harmony and they all need to be there and be present.
Kim Vopni (09:18.71)
Okay, got it.
Kim Vopni (09:22.947)
Got it.
Dr Tyna Moore (09:41.389)
for a myriad of things, but what we understand the best for in science is appetite control. So it's, we hungry? Are we full? How is our brain perceiving that? How is our intestines responding? How is our intestine signaling to our brain? All of this is a back and forth conversation that is in essence quite busted in the obese population.
Kim Vopni (09:58.574)
So the GLP and GIP are signaling molecules. Got it. Signaling hormones. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. originally designed for the diabetes group, then we see there's this weight loss and then now really it's exploded in that space, but still beneficial for diabetes. Are there other people who can benefit from either trisepatite or ozempic?
Dr Tyna Moore (10:04.63)
Yes, they're signaling hormone, peptides, yeah.
Dr Tyna Moore (10:26.912)
Yeah, so the studies that I was finding that I started sharing about in some cases, we only had animal models. And now we have human data. So in the past two years since I've been on this crusade to get this messaging out, and again, I'm not trying to get everybody on these peptides. I just cannot tolerate injustice and lies, especially when it's being thrown around from big names, names that we trust, especially in the functional medicine community, and it's misinformation straight up. And that's scaring people who these peptides might be life changing for.
who really do need them, specifically if they're dealing with extreme, the disease of obesity and or type two diabetes, because in many cases with those, yes, lifestyle is non-negotiable to bring these people back and to rein them in, but sometimes they need something more. If you've been in an extended period of obesity or type two diabetes, you might be so metabolically compromised. It's not just eat less and move more, you know?
So the messaging, unfortunately, from the maha community and from other loud voices who I respect very much and in most cases are so against these peptides. And I am over here just trying to hold the line. So some of the other implications that we've seen and we have data supporting it Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, sleep apnea, cardiovascular support. And these are mechanisms that are individually separate from the weight loss. So a lot of people argue, well, if you lose weight, all those things improves. Yes, but we've got
pleiotropic effects, meaning it can do more than one thing. And it heals your metabolism, they're healing their anti inflammatory and they're regenerative at the end of the day, they protect metabolic health. And so the implications are amazing. smoking cessation, alcohol cessation help with that. Now it's not a surefire in every case, but it certainly can turn the dial down. So some will report when they take it for weight loss. the food noise has left my mind. It's the noise of everything.
Kim Vopni (11:51.886)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Tyna Moore (12:18.826)
So people are utilizing them for gambling issues, for any dopamine chasing habit, right? Shopping, online shopping, doom scrolling on social media. Interestingly, I've got a pretty, you know, like you, I have a pretty large following. And so I get messages from people from all over the world, hundreds of thousands of people that follow me and I get thousands of messages. I've had people tell me that it's actually helped them with their eating disorder because they have the onus of control back. It opens this window.
where it allows you because it plays on our dopamine and serotonin pathways in our brain, it opens a window of opportunity where we can then apply lifestyle modifications and it actually induces neuroplasticity. So it changes the way the brain wires in a beneficial way if the person is doing beneficial things. So during the time that folks are utilizing these peptides, they could potentially be rewiring their brain with the new habits that we're introducing them to.
Kim Vopni (13:15.374)
That's so interesting.
Dr Tyna Moore (13:15.776)
Right, as holistic, comprehensive physicians. So to me, it's like this window of opportunity for people to get a leg up and to start in the right direction. We've seen the, they had to stop the study, the flow trial. They had to stop it because the impact on chronic kidney disease was so profound that it was unethical to withhold it from the control group. Yeah, regenerative to the pancreas and to the pancreatic cells, which is helpful in type one diabetes.
Kim Vopni (13:35.747)
Wow.
Dr Tyna Moore (13:44.245)
improve fertility in males and females impacting the ovaries and the gonads. I mean, the list goes on. It's pretty crazy. PCOS, I've seen improvement. Acne, I've seen improvement. I've seen improvement in mood. I know that they love to spew the information about suicidal ideology, but if you really look at the data, that is such a minuscule signal and the folks that they, it was not a causative, was.
Kim Vopni (13:52.717)
Yeah, yeah.
Dr Tyna Moore (14:08.962)
correlative in the study and they were looking at health records and what they found was the group that did the where there was a signal I think it's important to listen to signals when we see something we need to look at it but the signal was actually in folks who were already on other antidepressants and potentially benzodiazepines so and we can talk about it can cause something called a Hedinia which is where if you if you dose some I'm a big proponent of using the lowest dose absolutely necessary and I've
originally started talking about this in terms of microdosing. I think that conversation has been co-opted and twisted and the inmates are running the asylum on that and it's being put all over mainstream media now is microdosing for weight loss. It was never intended to be a weight loss strategy. In fact, I don't think it works as a weight loss strategy. I've not seen it work long term for as a weight loss strategy at all. Weight loss usually, you know, significant weight loss usually requires a bit more standard dosing, which is what the, you know, brand name
companies promote. But that said, I've seen folks report multiple times improvement in mood and we have data we have multiple studies showing this improvement in mood improvement in anxiety symptoms, elevation of mood, feeling more in control, folks writing me saying I was able to go off my antidepressants. I feel like this is the thing I was missing. And it's different for every person. Of course, if you dose somebody into so much appetite suppression and into this sort of malaise and flatness,
I could see where that might lead to depression or if people were relying heavily on food as their self-soothing mechanism and then suddenly we crush their appetite with the peptide, they don't want to eat, I could see how that could go sideways and we might see some lowering of mood or some depression, but I don't think that's necessary with proper management and dosing.
Kim Vopni (15:53.486)
I'm gonna come back to dosing but i wanna go down this path. Where when i so and i don't know enough i have seen like maybe one myth. I should even say i don't know if it's a myth maybe it's not a myth i heard one thing i haven't heard all the other things that you just said. The one thing that i have seen that does worry me and the other piece that does worry me as well as if we're suppressing appetite. Then are we getting enough.
New are the people consuming enough food to get enough nutrients. I also go to because I work in pelvic health. they going to poop well and then also the muscle loss. So the the muscle loss is that is what I have seen. That's like a major message that I have been seen. I've seen talked about quite a bit. So I want to go down the path before we get into dosing in that and the micro dosing side of things. What are some of the myths or reality is side effects that type of thing or the things that we need to know about or debunk?
Dr Tyna Moore (16:23.479)
Yep.
Dr Tyna Moore (16:28.14)
Yep.
Dr Tyna Moore (16:49.93)
I think your concerns are absolutely valid and I'll break down why. So these also work on the gut to slow gastric motility, right? And that's how everyone knows them. And we've heard about the gastroparesis, which is the paralyzation of the stomach. That side effect is transient and it goes away. The groups that are at most risk for gastroparesis are already...
the ones utilizing these peptides. So those who have diabetes and struggle with obesity, when you have elevated blood sugars for an extended period of time, we call it hyperglycemia, your vagus nerve gets hyper sugared up and destroyed. And so that vagal tone gets compromised. And that's what alerts our gastrointestinal tract to induce peristalsis and do its thing, right? And so when folks are put on the standard dosing, oftentimes,
I have seen that that dose is intolerable for them and they have to go through this break in period where they're feeling horrific. And this is where I do propose a lower dosing, which you can't get from these brand name pens, but you can get out of a vial. And fortunately, both of the big pharma companies have come out with viable versions of this now. just onboarding people a little bit more kindly and gently, right? I argue for the big pharma companies to pay attention to inclusiveness and we want to make
Kim Vopni (17:45.23)
thing.
Dr Tyna Moore (18:04.928)
the patient's experience tolerable and comfortable. We don't need to be inducing horrific side effects from the gate. And yes, people will acclimate to the dosing eventually, most people will, but it still doesn't need to be an uncomfortable, miserable, vomiting, diarrhea, know, or constipation or gastroparesis situation. I don't think that's a dosing and management issue. The big problem is that folks are being dosed into appetite suppression.
And if we do want to use it for weight loss, I vote for appetite control while we're teaching them how to do things correctly, not appetite suppression. you imagine the scenario of the average North American dosed into severe appetite suppression from the gate. Doses are escalated fairly quickly in an on-ramp that's, responsible doctors don't all do this, but standardized, it says dosum, double it every month about.
double the dose. And they take them up to quite a significant dose. That's a tremendous scale to have to go through in like 16 to 20 weeks. So I don't think that needs to happen that way, right? We can dose and hold, see what happens. We don't need to go into this terrible place. It shifts the microbiota in your gut to a more favorable microbiota, but I think a lot of folks are already dealing with a pretty pathologic microbiota. They've got leaky gut, they've got IBS, they maybe have inflammatory bowel disease.
And shifting the microbiota quickly can be a very uncomfortable experience because as the bad guys die off, if you're feeding yourself decently, the bad guys should die off and the good guys should win. But as the bad guys die off, they release lipopolysaccharides, they release endotoxins. It's a tremendously horrible experience if you've ever put a patient or client through a gut protocol, it can be really uncomfortable. And that doesn't need to be uncomfortable either. There's an art to that.
but what they can have happen is a Herxheimer reaction, which is when all these toxins are released and they feel like they have the flu, they feel horrible, they're getting migraines. I don't always think that's the peptide. I think it's the experience of the gut biome shifting is one thing to consider. So slow and low, slow and low is the way to go here. The other thing is that when you crush someone's appetite abruptly, they're gonna stop eating. And if you don't teach them how to eat appropriately, first, we don't wanna crush any appetites, but if you don't teach them how to eat better,
Dr Tyna Moore (20:20.246)
they might just still be going after the Chick-fil-A or the really high fat foods. And so now they're putting their gallbladder in a compromised state, right? And this is how we end up with sludgy gallbladder bile and we end up potentially throwing a stone into the pancreas, which could potentially lead to pancreatitis. So anyone who has real gallbladder issues or biliary issues or pancreatic issues, they're not candidates. They just have to go really slow and low and be managed well.
And this is why buying it off the internet's not a good idea, but working with a talented doctor who knows what they're doing and making sure that you are advocating for yourself to keep the dose slow and low so that you're comfortable throughout that process and not crushing Chick-fil-A's while your appetite is being crushed, right? Instead of eating the bag of potato chips, they eat like three or four high fatty foods. That's gonna stall out the whole gut system. It's not a fun game. It can induce constipation. It also can induce, you know,
Kim Vopni (21:06.979)
Yeah.
Dr Tyna Moore (21:15.794)
sped up motility. So people might lean towards diarrhea, I call that the purge, usually it regulates out. So those who have like for myself, I have always tended towards loose stool. That's just kind of been my SIBO story for ever, you know, and if if you talk to any doctors who work with SIBO, and they tell you the truth, you cannot ever really get rid of SIBO, you can improve it, but you cannot ever eradicate it. For me, it actually helps with firming up my stool. So I've really comfortable
improved bowel movements, others will report that finally they're getting some relief from their constipation, others will become more constipated, those people tend to have low thyroid and low hormonal status anyway. And so I have found with GLP-1s, no matter the micro dose or the mega dose, really sort of, whatever hormonal imbalance you're struggling with as you go into this might be more pronounced.
And so if someone's got some thyroid issues, they might go more hypothyroid and start having a lot of hair loss. It's because we're asking systems to rev up that may not have the necessary co-factors to work. So it's a whole systems approach is the way that I look at things. These are just a tool and a tool belt. I'm using other peptides. I'm using other nutraceuticals. I'm treating the patient in front of me, not just some algorithm.
Kim Vopni (22:08.44)
Got it.
Kim Vopni (22:28.45)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Tyna Moore (22:30.314)
So we don't need to crush their appetite. We don't need to stall out their gut. Again, dosing and management issue. We can teach them how to eat better. If they're not prioritizing protein and really prioritizing it hardcore, they are not going to have muscle protein synthesis, but they probably went into it not prioritizing protein, right? This is an all hands on deck approach for people. That's why I say get with people who know what they're doing and get a holistic plan on board. The weight loss piece, that,
scary statistic that you keep hearing out there that 40 % okay, so let's back up. I'm sorry that the muscle loss, the 40 % muscle loss. Let me correct myself on that. That scary statistic is actually lean mass loss. Muscle is just part of your lean mass, right? And so is the fatty marbling of your muscle that most people who have compromised metabolic health are already dealing with. So for your listeners who don't know this, when you are sitting on the spectrum of
Kim Vopni (23:04.973)
Do mean the muscle loss? Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (23:15.628)
Mm. Okay.
Kim Vopni (23:23.598)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Tyna Moore (23:28.598)
metabolic dysfunction, which 94 % of US adults are sitting on, and you are insulin resistant, your muscles get marbled with fat. So you've got pathologic muscle going in. Now imagine, and this is something I haven't seen anyone address, imagine inducing extreme caloric restriction in an individual, whether it's through just diet like the biggest loser did on the TV show, or it's bariatric surgery, or it's crushing their appetite with GLP-1, however you induce severe caloric restriction.
the numbers are on par, 25 to 40 % lean mass loss. That's not necessary. That doesn't have to happen that way. So it's not the peptide actually inducing muscle loss or lean mass loss at all. It's the way that they're going about becoming more malnourished. They probably went in malnourished. They're probably going through it more malnourished. And then what I'll add to that is they have been shown to be regenerative and healing and
perhaps anabolic in much capacity to the muscle and to the bones. So when we hear, your bones are, I just heard a big influencer say your bones are gonna turn to dust and you're gonna lose all your muscle. And this woman has almost a million followers. And I was like, are you serious right now? Because all the data I'm looking at says that it's regenerative and protective to bone and bone cells and to muscles and muscle cells. The problem is in the user.
and the prescribing doc who's managing the user. It's not in the peptide. The peptide itself is actually quite protective and it's protective in helping morph that pathologic muscle I just mentioned into a healthier type of muscle. it's again, management and dosing.
Kim Vopni (24:47.074)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (25:00.972)
Yeah. And these studies are all with the mega dosing strategies as opposed to the standardized.
Dr Tyna Moore (25:06.678)
The more standardized dosing. Yeah. And then if you look at some of the studies where they actually implemented exercise into the, you know, one group, one arm of the study, those people held onto their muscle much better. So I'll get nerdy for a second. We have these pathways. We have this AMPK pathway, which is like the pathway of longevity. And this is what all the longevity biohackers are chasing is the stimulating the AMPK pathway. It helps with mitochondrial
Kim Vopni (25:20.536)
Yeah, that was my next question.
Dr Tyna Moore (25:36.503)
you know, genesis and it helps supposedly keep you alive longer. The other side of AMPK is this is the kindergarten version is mTOR and mTOR is in a pathologic sense if mTOR is being stimulated by excess ultra-refined carbohydrates and insulin, it can be pathologic and it can be, you know, cancer driving. But mTOR done right is the pathway you stimulate when you eat meat and you strength train.
So in my world, it's about balancing the teeter totter. We don't wanna rev anyone pathway too hard, right? We want balance. so guess what GLP-1s do? They rev the AMPK pathway. But the AMPK pathway in an individual who is well-trained and who is well-fed actually stimulates mTOR by default. So you get this beautiful synergistic effect, but for the average person using them, they're not exercising, they're not hitting their protein macros, they're not getting nutritionally dense foods.
And so what are they doing? They're revving AMPK, which when you do that too high for too long, it becomes catabolic. It becomes wasting. So I think that's part of the wasting we're seeing. So in that sense, the peptide could be responsible. But again, it's user error.
Kim Vopni (26:50.402)
Yeah. Okay, so then so standard dosing is what's currently included in the studies you have been talking about this micro dosing. And when I when I hear the term micro dosing, I immediately go to mushrooms. And as you were talking earlier about how it sort of rewires the brain, I also am going to mushrooms like that's a lot of what people talk about from either a micro dose or the, you know, the therapeutic dosing with with psilocybin.
Dr Tyna Moore (27:02.7)
Hahaha.
Kim Vopni (27:18.37)
So that's i'm just making an observation on that but but micro dosing meaning smaller doses maybe less frequently less total amount what what do you like from what is a standard dose what would be a micro dose and how also you mentioned oral versus injection and you think there there's now going they're trying to expand upon the way that it can be delivered so is there a benefit benefit to injection over oral even in a micro dose as well.
Dr Tyna Moore (27:46.507)
I always prefer an injection because my background was in regenerative injection therapy. So anytime I can inject somebody, I can control absorption much better than through oral or topical, right? So I'm a big fan of injection. And when we're talking injection with these, it's a tiny little needle. It's not a big deal. I've never seen anybody not get over it. Like it's not a big deal, right? It's yes. Or I have clients that I consult with who are seeing prescribing doctors for the GLP one. I'm not the one prescribing, but they're seeing other practitioners who are and
Kim Vopni (28:04.706)
And it's something people do themselves. Yeah.
Dr Tyna Moore (28:15.678)
They are going in and the doctor's administering the shot each week just to be really careful, right? That's good doctoring. be, you know, manage your patient carefully. So microdosing, my hypothesis was not as a weight loss strategy, not just as a vanity weight. That's really what's kind of, it's like the medis spas and the telemedicine companies and everybody's running with it is this, it's like, you know, a dosing strategy for vanity for those who have five to 15 pounds to lose.
Kim Vopni (28:20.462)
Okay. Yeah.
Dr Tyna Moore (28:44.66)
Yes, if you're metabolically optimized, like you and I, middle aged ladies, we've got our hormones dialed in, we're eating the meat, we're lifting the weights, we're doing all the things, yeah, the fluff usually will come off. And that's great. For those women like us who hit menopause, hit middle age, like I had that 15 pounds just hit my midsection out of nowhere without having changed anything except my stress had gone up significantly.
And it helps take care of that. Now I don't have a six pack, my abs are not as flat as yours, because I don't dose myself into appetite suppression. If I wanted to lose more weight, I would have to dose higher. My hypothesis was, look at all these other things that GLP-1s can impact. I'm never promising prevention, treatment, or cure. I am a naturopathic physician. I'm trying to move my patients towards homeostasis, and I'm trying to utilize the tools in the tool belt. Just to note,
other peptides that I use, they don't work so well. And those who are metabolically compromised, that's what no one's telling you everyone's raving about BPC 157 to regenerate tissue and TB 500 and all these other peptides, they don't work well in a metabolically compromised body. They work amazingly well in a metabolically optimized body. So that's like two separate conversations. I'm over here treating folks like you and I in the longevity space, where we're just trying to tinker like you and I have issues, different issues, right? They're still
causing us grief, but we're just not in this pathologic group of people. And I don't say that derogatorily, but truly when you've hit type two diabetes, you are in an extremely pathologic state. I mean, that is metabolic compromise to the max and people just have normalized it, but it is a disaster. It's not a good place to be. Those folks need help too. I'm talking like.
We need a little sprinkling of this or a little sprinkling of that. We usually don't need a lot of hormones. We usually don't need a lot of anything. We just need a little bit of this and that and we just get the harmony in the orchestra playing right. And we might see improvement in mood. We might see improvement in cognition. We might see improvement in other areas. We're not treating a disease with microdosing. We're simply trying to optimize the individual.
Dr Tyna Moore (30:42.078)
and recycle it. So we're taking such a low dose that we can go on and off of it. This low dose, Matt, it varies once people, people demand online all the time, what's the dose you're gatekeeping. I'm like, it totally depends on the individual in front of me. It totally depends on the person sitting in front of me, what their short term goals are, what their long term goals are, what their age, their weight, their muscle mass, their fat mass, their, you know, what other comorbidities are they dealing with? What are we trying to do here?
and we dose appropriately at the minimum dose necessary to impart change. And then where do we hold them? That depends. And then how do we cycle them? That depends. And so it's a fraction of the starting dose, like a fraction, in some cases, a fifth to a 10th of the starting dose. And so the feedback I get is people hear that and they hear hope.
and they go running and they find it and then they take a fraction and then they write me angry and say it didn't work. And I'm like, it didn't work for what? Well, first of all, you were using it as monotherapy, which I have never proposed is the answer. I'm using it conjunctively with other things. So they're using it as a solo therapy, monotherapy, and they're expecting weight loss to happen. And I'm like, I never said it was a weight loss strategy. I think in the mainstream community, they're now talking about it. know, big publications have written it up.
We actually have an article in the Journal of Diabetes that just came out about microdosing. They're utilizing it differently as an onboarding strategy, as more of a personalized onboarding strategy. So like I said earlier, getting that patient comfortable, introducing them to the peptide and making sure they tolerate it, starting at lower doses so that you can get them up probably to the more standard dose. If you wanna move the needle on type two or you wanna move the needle on obesity. But for what I have proposed at POR,
That message has been lost, unfortunately, in all of this, and I can't do anything to get it back, but I'm proposing, we're utilizing it. I've used it in folks who deal with neurodivergence. They have a hard time with concentration, ADHD, that sort of like autistic ADHD picture. I've seen it improve PCOS in younger women. I've seen it.
Dr Tyna Moore (32:51.68)
Like I said, improved mood. I've got patients with inflammatory bowel disease who deal with a lot of joint pain. I've seen it improve the joint pain and the inflammatory bowel disease. So they're able to tolerate a bigger variety of foods and their gut isn't always on fire. For myself personally, I was utilizing it for cognition, for brain fog, and there's a family history of MS in my family. So for me, preventatively, I look at it.
And I also was looking at it in terms of helping with pain. It's got profound anti-inflammatory impacts and anti-pain impacts throughout the body. We have data to support that. So I was utilizing it for that. Because I have chronic joint pain with my autoimmune disease. So all of that to say, I think that there's, we're talking totally different groups of people here with a totally different goal in mind. And so this does not translate to that. And that's what I want to be clear on.
Kim Vopni (33:41.442)
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Were you and are you still using, well, which one were you using trisepatide or? Okay.
Dr Tyna Moore (33:51.243)
I use them both. I cycle, my off cycle might be very different than others. Some people, it's hard to give a standard. Some people dose once every two weeks. I think that's silly. The half life of these peptides is four to seven days. So like four to six days. So why would you go two weeks? Then it's in completely in and out of your system. I propose, you know, a much lower dose more frequently. Other people are saying I'm using, they think they're microdosing. TikTok has ruined this whole thing.
I hear it all over the tic. I know. Tic toc's ruining the world. I've heard people say, I guess I'm microdosing now they're taking a standard dose like an actual like pretty decent size standard dose and they're breaking it up throughout the week. So they're injecting a smaller aliquot multiple times a week. I think that's nonsense too. I hear some of the big bro, you know, the big bro science guys like biohacker guys.
Kim Vopni (34:21.12)
As with many things.
Kim Vopni (34:36.044)
Mm.
Dr Tyna Moore (34:44.47)
gym bro guys, they're talking about that, that's not microdosing. Taking a standard dose broken up into smaller doses is not microdosing. And why would you do that when the half life again is four to six, four to seven days? like, anyway, what I was proposing is literally taking a fraction of the starting dose, same schedule once a week and utilizing it for a variety of different reasons as an adjunctive tool in a comprehensive toolkit.
Kim Vopni (35:09.762)
Yeah, yeah. What's the benefit? why would you if trisepidide has both? What's the benefit of just then like, why would you have just GLP?
Dr Tyna Moore (35:22.366)
just yeah, why would you take just the semaglutide? Well, I think cost can be an issue. It depends on how folks are accessing it. Cost can be an issue in the compounded world. Semaglutide is a lot less expensive than terzepotide. The terzepotide can cause some people like semaglutide. I've switched folks and they didn't like it. They wanted to go back to semaglutide. I've had folks do better on terzepotide and have less nausea with it.
Kim Vopni (35:34.338)
Okay.
Dr Tyna Moore (35:48.279)
I've had folks get more reflux on terzepatide that seems to be a bigger concern. I've had folks complain about, know, on this one, my gut was really good and my stool was firming up and on this one, I'm having diarrhea or vice versa. On this one, I'm having constipation and on this one, my stools are moving better. So you kind of just have to, yeah, you gotta treat the person in front of you.
Kim Vopni (36:07.416)
highly individualized.
Yep, yep, which is not the way that really anything has been done.
Dr Tyna Moore (36:15.83)
No, but I think, you know, this is I have my course and the reason I made it was because I wanted to educate folks so that they were empowered so that they could have a conversation with their physicians and they could expect their physicians to do better. It's a course for clinicians. I'm actually going to discontinue the course soon, pull it down and open just the clinical portion up to clinicians and do a much simpler version with way less clinical information for the general public because it's just wires are getting crossed in there. So they're all in one course right now.
Kim Vopni (36:39.502)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Dr Tyna Moore (36:44.418)
But I really want to empower people and this is why I created so much free content and I'm writing a book right now that I'm going to give away for free. Like I just want people to be empowered and understand how these work. I cannot tell anybody without seeing their labs and hearing their health history and finding out what their goals are, how to dose.
But I think that once you really understand what we're getting at here and you understand that HRT is a non-negotiable in this conversation, especially if you're over the age 35, 40, you're looking at adjunctive HRT, whether that be thyroid, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, all of these things work together in stack. And I will add, if you're not planning on strength training three times a week, don't start. Don't even start because
that AMPK mTOR thing I just described, we're stacking or we're wasting. So we're either stacking our modalities and we're making everything work together in harmony or we are potentially inducing a catabolic state, which is not great. And this is my concern with folks who really are dealing with obesity who need a higher dose. I was just with a good friend and she told me her dosing and I was like, whoa, that's a big one. But that's what she had to go up to to move the needle because she is dealing with a good 60 extra pounds. And
then I saw her eat for three days and I had to like beat her butt to get her in the gym with me. And I was like, no, no, no, no. Like, what are you even doing? You don't you don't get to take this if you're not going to take the strength training piece and figure out how are you going to allocate the funds to make sure that you can do that appropriately and safely and whether it's through starting in your program to make sure that that pelvic floor is working so that they can withstand tension in the muscles in the gym, whatever it takes.
Kim Vopni (38:08.674)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Tyna Moore (38:24.414)
It's a, when you embark on this, it's a comprehensive journey. It's not a take a shot once a week and woohoo.
Kim Vopni (38:30.99)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is what most people are looking for, but no.
Dr Tyna Moore (38:35.86)
It doesn't exist. Because I am now getting since I've been talking about this for a few years, I am now getting the messages from the people who tried microdosing by themselves. And they're like, they're either a, where do I go from here? I'm stuck. It's stalled. It stopped working. It even stopped working for mitigating my inflammation and mitigating my autoimmune and making my mood improved. All of that stalled out. What do I do? I'm like, the course so can actually tell you.
because I cannot tell the general public. I can only give you the clinical rationale inside the course and you have to sort it out for yourself. Number two, if they've been using it for weight loss, a lot of folks are getting up to the highest dose and they're stalled because guess what they did? This is the message that kills me, Kim. I get this message all the time. I listened to all your podcasts. I started microdosing. It's changed my life. I've lost 60 pounds. I feel amazing. All of my blood markers have, you
gone into check, everything's great. And now I'm going to start strength training. And I'm like, no. Like, explain to your audience why that is the worst thing in the world, right? Like, no, they just lost so much muscle. And now the end game of that is such a severe metabolic compromise. If they discontinue the peptide,
Kim Vopni (39:33.614)
You
Kim Vopni (39:41.614)
You
Dr Tyna Moore (39:56.031)
All that protection is gonna leave. Now, that's not to say all of it because I do think that the longer you're on it, the more healing can occur, because it is protective to the metabolism. I have the data. But if we've not done anything else and we just lost the weight, we now have lost potentially a lot of lean mass, which was the only thing protecting your metabolism. And if you withdraw that peptide, you're potentially in a worse spot than you started. It's a disaster.
Kim Vopni (40:20.674)
Yeah, yeah. That was a question I had as well as how you've mentioned yours personally, you have a cycle and that's what microdosing really would be for even the patients that you're treating. With the standardized dose, is the intention that this is a lifelong medication or is the intention that it is a short period of time to get to a certain point where maybe like
Well i don't agree with but the person who said well now i'm ready to go start strength training now so they maybe have more energy maybe they have more confidence maybe so it's the catalyst that brings them to the point of maybe now making healthier decisions. Like with that person need to or should they stay on for life or is this is it meant to be a therapeutic time frame that they would be utilizing this.
Dr Tyna Moore (40:54.902)
Yes.
Dr Tyna Moore (41:12.95)
My hope would be for the latter that they go into it full throttle and they're prepared. I tell folks within the, if you're really, know that some folks are really going into this in a bad state and they're really struggling with obesity. They've been very deconditioned. They've never been active or they haven't been active for a long time. mean, shoot, my dad was in a lazy boy chair for 20 years and one foot in the grave. And I was like, I'm putting you on Ozempic.
This is not negotiable. got a he of course agreed I didn't force it but he after I explained it he'd bought into the mainstream media, know messaging and he was scared but he's down significantly and he's finally starting to want to move although he's not doing such a good job of it but he sure is moving a lot more than he was so I tell folks you need to be planning on the first 90 days around the first around the 90-day mark at the latest people really do start feeling better and they feel like they've got some gumption to get
Kim Vopni (41:59.916)
these too.
Dr Tyna Moore (42:10.88)
to get going. And so that's when we have to overcome any hesitancy and we got to get in the gym or we got to get in rehab or we got to be doing whatever we're doing. That said, I do think some folks who have the true disease of obesity and I do firmly believe that there is a disease of obesity. It's not just an eat less move more. These people are have a different wiring. They have a different genetic epigenetic profile. It's it's it's complicated. I don't even pretend to understand all of it, but there's something there that's real.
For those folks, think they might be looking at taking it the rest of their life. And the higher the dose you're on, the harder it is to cycle, because then you got to titrate all the way off, and I don't think cycling's in their cards. So this is why I'm such a proponent of no matter how you choose to use it or what you need to use it for, try to stay on the lowest dose necessary. And that means do all the other things, as I call all the things. Optimizing our sleep, setting our circadian rhythm, getting adequate daylight.
making sure we're eating nutrient dense food, making sure we're strength training, making sure that we are mitigating our stress and having some mindfulness throughout our day, all the things. I know it's hard. There's often a gut component we have to address and a hormonal component, but getting all of that lined up and making sure that you embark on this journey like all hands on deck, because if you are on a lower dose, you do have the potential to cycle off. And what that does is that keeps your receptor sensitive. With any hormone that we use, we get receptor.
insensitivity. So we hear about insulin resistance, we get receptor resistance, and we can get GLP-1 resistance. And now the studies are bearing out that people can stay on these forever. And it's no problem. But I'm hearing from my pharmacy friends saying patients are calling the pharmacy saying, do you have a stronger version? And now they're actually coming out with a semaglutide that's, hopefully it's being tested. It's I hope they test it well, because it's a way higher dose. It's an oral form. And I'm scared, like
that high of a dose, just all I see is increased wasting potential, right? And so this is why I think it's so I think everyone, this is why my course is called GLP one done right, because I think no matter what they're using it for, what they're dosing it for, I think most people are doing it wrong. And I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus, because a lot of people don't know and a lot of doctors don't know. I mean, come on between you and I like how many doctors do we really know that understand metabolic health? Not a lot, right? Most of them are not in good metabolic health themselves. So
Kim Vopni (44:29.4)
Yeah, not many.
Dr Tyna Moore (44:34.394)
I'm not dissing anyone. It's just not anything we're taught in school and it's not anything that's prioritized and their version is still eat less and move more and go plant based or something like it's it's crazy to me. So I I think that there's a lot of room for concern and I have the same concerns everyone else has. So to answer your question, I think some people are going to be on it for life. But.
The folks who really do it right, I have seen be able to come off and maintain. And I think it depends on how much weight you have to lose. And I think it depends on how long you've had a lot of weight to lose or how long you've had type 2 diabetes and how long that metabolic compromise has been going on. And I think it depends on how serious you are about the maintenance on the other side, right? So this is a life change. This isn't just a pop on a peptide, come off it, everything's fine. It will stop working when you withdraw it if you're not doing the things to take advantage of that window.
of opportunity I spoke of. that answer it?
Kim Vopni (45:26.008)
Yeah. Yep. What? So I have a sidebar. You say naturopathic. I say naturopathic. OK. Tomato, tomato, kegel, kegel. OK, got it. OK. So Ken, you're an antipathic doctor. Can you prescribe? So naturopathic doctors and medical doctors can prescribe.
Dr Tyna Moore (45:35.99)
That's the same. Yeah. Same, same.
Dr Tyna Moore (45:46.528)
Yes.
Dr Tyna Moore (45:51.639)
real naturopathic doctors and it depends on their state or their province. So there are a lot of fake NDs out there and there's some NDs suppose a doctor so and so ND online on Instagram with way more followers than we have and they're fake. I just did a whole podcast episode about it if people want to hear. I like broke it all down so because I'm sick of it. But real naturopathic physicians who hold a license in a state where they have prescribing rights now we don't have prescribing rights in every state. I happen to be
Kim Vopni (45:55.617)
Okay, yes.
Kim Vopni (46:10.254)
Okay, I'm totally listening to that.
Dr Tyna Moore (46:19.018)
I happen to hold license in states where we do have prescribing rights and there are provinces that can't prescribe and the provinces that can I don't know all the details up there where you are but I do know some NDs in Canada who are prescribing. So yes, but I would highly right now to be honest with you I was just talking to a compounding pharmacy buddy who owns a big pharmacy that
dispenses a lot of GLP ones and other peptides. And he said it's scary as heck right now, even in the compounding world, they don't know where it's coming from. It's coming in from China, it's coming in from different places, there was just a recall on some versions that went out. I'm not not to say that people should be afraid of compounding pharmacies. But there's a lot of this being bought what we call in the gray market, which is these research labs, people are buying it offline, and they're getting sometimes
insulin. just saw a case in the UK where a woman actually their insulin was in the pen. She thought she was buying it was counterfeit straight up. So be careful. But in the end, it doesn't matter if how you can access it. You still need a you still need a physician who knows what they're doing or a health professional who knows what they're doing, who can get you access to these other tools so that you do it right. Especially if you're a middle aged woman, you're going to need hormones.
Kim Vopni (47:16.37)
man.
Dr Tyna Moore (47:35.831)
your pelvic floor is not gonna stay toned and intact if you're missing estrogen and progesterone and testosterone. It's going to continue to away. I mean, I don't know how you feel on that, but like I feel very strongly that that's huge. And so we can't ask muscles to do something when they're not getting the signal to do it, right? So this is just going on the GLP one and sometimes just getting the weight off. will say, like in my dad's case, actually have, of all the patients I have on it, I only have
Kim Vopni (47:42.83)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (47:47.47)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (47:52.344)
Yeah.
Dr Tyna Moore (48:05.178)
One who had extreme weight loss, which was my father. And then I have another client I'm working with who has a different prescriber, but I'm helping sort of oversee and guide her. And she's going very slow and low. And she just has appreciable weight to lose. Everyone else, I've just been using it in microdosing. So I don't have a big obesity practice. But I will say that some folks have helped many patients lose a lot of weight, though. I've helped like 400 pound people lose hundreds of pounds. We need a leg up sometimes.
And we need a place to start. And that's why I say, you know, a good 90 days on this while you're being careful to hit your protein macros and you're trying to move as much as you can and you're committed to the process. We need a leg up sometimes to get the ball rolling. And I'll say this too about obesity just real quick. So your audience understands why some people might need to be on this forever. When you shrink a body down and it loses a lot of fat and probably some lean mass, it's the basal metabolic rate of that body goes down. And so that
Kim Vopni (49:01.422)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Tyna Moore (49:03.106)
person now can only eat less calories and move more than they were when they were obese to maintain that smaller body, because we've just decreased the resting metabolic rate. And something called metabolic adaptation happens when you go into caloric restriction and you have a an expected drop in resting metabolic rate. When you lose weight too fast and too abruptly, like in the biggest loser study, there was a study done in 2016.
showed that that metabolic adaptation was extreme and severe. And those folks went into a resting metabolic rate that was so low that, and it lasted for the six years that they followed them. These folks could not, you cannot eat much of anything anymore. And you can expect the rest of your life potentially to be like that. That's a terrible place to live. There was a study that just came out, it was small, but it showed that tersepidide protected against that metabolic adaptation being so extreme.
Kim Vopni (49:40.269)
Wow.
Kim Vopni (49:48.536)
Well.
Kim Vopni (49:58.178)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Tyna Moore (49:58.401)
And so while they lost a tremendous amount of weight, they just had the expected downturn of resting metabolic rate, not the extreme version. I would say that's a win. And their fatty acid oxidation went up, which is a win. So that's why some people might need to stay on them. Because if they're going from a large size body to a much smaller size body, the struggle to stay in that smaller size body, like the success rates of a
Kim Vopni (50:14.988)
Yeah.
Dr Tyna Moore (50:24.642)
people losing weight and keeping it off, especially if they're in a severely a besogenic state is like right up there with rehab, which honestly is about 5 % at best. So these people might need a leg up.
Kim Vopni (50:36.962)
Yeah. Yeah. One more last question. Obviously nutrient rich foods focus on protein. Are there any other considerations from a diet perspective that people need to be aware of or just kind of eat as they eat? mean, obviously the fundamentals, void process, food, sugar, blah, blah, blah. But aside from protein and nutrient dense, any other guidelines that they would need to pay attention to?
Dr Tyna Moore (51:01.44)
I think as long as they stay, it seems to be the fatty food, especially if it's like fried fatty food that gets people in trouble. Whenever I hear about trouble, people were crushing something high fat, usually like, you know, something deep fried that had been fried in the same oil that had been used multiple times, kind of gross omega seed oil. So be careful of that. And I will say even on microdoses, I've seen people start to go into a bit of a catabolic wasting state if they weren't diligent about the gym.
Kim Vopni (51:13.73)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Dr Tyna Moore (51:29.546)
So even at the tiniest doses, I've seen people say, you know, I'm getting weaker, my hair is starting to fall out a little bit. So there's a harmony that needs to happen. this is where I say these are not to be played with, because in a lean individual like myself, who just utilizes a tiny bit, a little bit can be a lot too much. So being really careful and just trying to stay on the lowest end possible, we don't want to crush anyone's appetite. So look out for appetite, just severe suppression. People just
stop wanting to eat and even in folks that I've used it with for drinking or smoking cessation, even the tiniest little bit too much and they just lose luster for life. They lose luster for everything. They don't want dark chocolate anymore. They don't want to go out and be social. They don't want to go to dinner with friends. So that I guess that's what I would say is like, don't let it ruin the other aspects of your life because that's part of life too is having meals with people you love.
Kim Vopni (52:13.934)
Hmm.
Kim Vopni (52:19.842)
All the things, yeah.
Kim Vopni (52:23.89)
Yeah, yeah. Where can people find you and potentially take your course once you've once you've divided out into the sections?
Dr Tyna Moore (52:31.874)
Well for now, for now it's still available as a stance and it's so good. It really is so good. I've worked so hard on it. I just completed the last module and it's so good. It's so dense. DrTina.com, it's D-R-T-Y-N-A and at the top there you'll see a banner that says GLP-1's done right and it, I'm sorry, GLP-1 Uncovered. It's just a free four part video series. I, cause we didn't touch on this yet, but and I don't think we have time, but part one, part two, part three, part four, I go into
all the other things it's good for besides weight loss, which I think we touched on a bit. I talk about the big scary. So if you really want to hear the myth dispelled, like the thyroid cancer and all the other things, I go into it deep. And I talk about how potentially, you know, the the dosing situation, we got to be cognizant of that. And it's free. I've got probably 20 hours of free podcasts on the Dr. Tina show. It's Dr. T y n a. I'm on YouTube, all of that. So get on my email list. I talk about this there.
Go check out the podcast because I have a ton of free info for people on the subject.
Kim Vopni (53:33.388)
Yeah, yeah, great podcast. I love what you're doing. Thank you for all the amazing work you do and for being a true seeker and a true sharer and for joining me. Thank you.
Dr Tyna Moore (53:36.182)
Thank you.
Dr Tyna Moore (53:43.211)
Yeah, thanks for having me.
