Kim Vopni (00:01.165)
Hi Deanna, welcome to the show. I'm excited to talk about this topic. It's something that I have, I try to remember when I first learned about it. It's probably been close to 10 years since the first time I learned about tapping or EFT. And I kind of dabbled, I kind of tried it as part of these workshops or retreats that I was at, but it wasn't until probably about a year ago where I, something,
reminded me of it and I happen to be going through a stressful time and I used it and I. I was I was amazed honestly at how it helped me and now I wouldn't say I'm regular yet but I have an app and I go through more regularly than I have before and this is something that is your area of expertise and this is not pelvic health related for all the listeners but.
It's a way to help manage the stress and the emotional turmoil and the trauma that can be associated with pelvic floor challenges or any other challenges in life for that matter. So I'm excited to dive into this topic with you. And before we get into the nitty gritty, can you please introduce yourself? Let us know who you are and how like what brought you to the world of EFT. We're going to obviously talk about what that is. Emotional freedom technique or tapping. So what brought you?
What brought you to that world?
Deanna Lyons (01:26.338)
Well, what brought me to it is kind of like what you were saying. I was in a really stressful environment, working as a meeting planner, planning large events and conferences. And I started to take some stress management classes. And in that, there was some tapping. And I liked it when I did it, but I didn't really get how to.
use it properly. I was worried that I had to do it right, that I had to have everything just so in order for it to work. But one thing led to another and I ended up leaving that job and moving into some of the stress management tools that I was working with, hypnotherapy and some of the others. But tapping rose to the top when I realized actually how simple it is and that I don't have to do it perfectly.
So it was really a lot of stress that led me there and the realization that I could do something for myself easily and effectively might not resolve all the problems but it sure took down the stress level so I could think more clearly and really I haven't looked back. Since then that was back in 20...
Well, 2012 when I learned it, but really it was 2015 when I jumped in full bore and really learned more and more about tapping and I haven't stopped. I'm actually now a certified trainer as well, so I can teach people that want to add it to their coaching practice or their personal practice. It's even good classes to learn that way.
Kim Vopni (03:10.1)
Yeah, very, very cool. what it's called tapping and also referred to as the emotional freedom technique. Is there another name or so I guess what is the actual technique?
Deanna Lyons (03:22.882)
The actual name is emotional freedom techniques. It's actually an S. There's techniques within it and then it has been commonly known now as tapping. So it's evolved over that. Gary Craig and Roger Callahan were the original founders. Roger Callahan was a doctor and he had developed these tapping sequences for if you had a headache, you would tap here and tap there and do something different. And if you had a stomach ache,
Kim Vopni (03:27.295)
Okay.
Deanna Lyons (03:52.828)
would use a different algorithm and Gary Craig was one of his students but he was also an electrical engineer by trade and he said there has to be a way to shortcut this and that was really how the very basic form of EFT tapping was born by hitting all the major meridians, the energy meridians that run through the body and
easily accessible by tapping in these points that we do. And so this way you don't have to know if you're tapping on all the points.
you know, these, these, you're hitting the major energy meridians, you are going to catch wherever the disturbance is in the electrical system. And that was what Gary was thinking about when he originally discovered it and, and, brought it to life. But then within the, the, the techniques, there's other, you still use the basics, but then you can modify it in a variety of ways. So there's
tell a story technique in which if you have a singular event and we can tap on all the different points within that event because there's often you know when you first fight you know when you first run into something scary there's a startle response so we would tap on that startle and then once we clear that that energetic then we would move on to your fear or pain or whatever it is and so there's a systematic way in which
we carefully work with the emotional components that happen. Certainly, you know, if you're in a car accident and you've broken your leg, there's also additional things that you need to do. So you need medical attention, but there's also an emotional component. And that happens with a lot of things.
Kim Vopni (05:53.485)
When you say you know an event so say there was a startle response when you say we want to Is it like where you feel that startle so it whether it was in your chest or your stomach or if you felt pain somewhere is that what you mean by clearing that that startle.
Deanna Lyons (06:13.208)
That's correct. And so it's really working with it and being with it. I use the word clear and it is that. But a lot of times what we're really doing rather than clearing is we're allowing the nervous system to settle and realize that it's safe now. It's safe enough now. When that first happened, you didn't have time to address it. You had to do whatever was next.
post event there's an opportunity to be with that part of you that's still stuck there. And like you say, oftentimes that's held somewhere in the body. And if we can find it and tap with it, be with it, not try to change it, but be with it. I'm also a somatic experiencing practitioner. So I couple the two tools.
We want to be with those parts of us. And so they're stored, like you say, sometimes in the stomach, or they might be in the heart or the throat. And we'll work with the emotional component and the physical component. And so sometimes people go, well, I don't know what I feel, and that's OK. We work with that too.
Kim Vopni (07:24.78)
Mm-hmm.
Deanna Lyons (07:25.39)
And slowly but surely we unfold and unwind those parts of the nervous system that got stuck in that event and allow it to safely come out the other side. The fight or flight response is beautiful and we all have it and we all need it. Where it gets into trouble is that if it doesn't quite feel safe enough to come all the way back down to safe and social and connected.
And so that's typically where things, that's where you might call somebody like myself or your therapist or others for assistance. That didn't get completed. And EFT and somatic experiencing truly are the two best tools I've been exposed to that...
help navigate the nervous system, the mind and the body, they're mind-body connectors. The mind and the body are connected. We just spend so much time up here that we sort of forget there's these other things that are going on until an ulcer comes up or until there's IBS or, you know, different things that show up. So this can help mitigate all of those things and then allow that.
ability to come out the other side safely and the nervous system no longer needs to find a way to resolve it. Until it's resolved it keeps looking for... you might run into this let me make sure you're safe. Yeah. I was just going to say the primary objective of the unconscious mind is to keep us safe and alive.
Kim Vopni (08:59.222)
Right. Sorry, go ahead.
Kim Vopni (09:07.618)
Mm-hmm.
Deanna Lyons (09:08.278)
And so until it feels safe enough, it's going to keep making sure that you don't miss something.
Kim Vopni (09:15.806)
it. Before we go, I want to dive deeper into the somatic sorry into the tapping. what is what do you mean? What is a somatic experience or experiencing practitioner?
Deanna Lyons (09:27.49)
That's a great question. Somatic Experiencing was founded by Peter Levine. Peter wrote a book called Waking the Tiger. And what he observed is that animals in the wild have the capacity to have some pretty big stressful things happen to them. go out, know, tiger will go out and kill its meal. And then it comes back. And when it's all done, it literally just shakes and shakes that
off. As humans we don't do that very well. We stay stuck in our minds and it gets stored in the body. If it's not safely released that energetic gets stored somewhere. And what somatic experiencing does is works with wherever that emotion
and the circumstances around the emotion if they got stuck. Because once again, if you came all the way through the cycle, you won't have a traumatic response. You have an initial experience, but the trauma is when you don't come out the other side.
Kim Vopni (10:44.812)
So is, do we, should we shake like animals do?
Deanna Lyons (10:48.11)
Well, shaking is one of those things that you can do, and there's some modalities out there that teach you about that. Certainly, if you notice a situation where maybe you almost were in a car accident, and your nervous system, all of a sudden, you know how you'll tremble a little bit. You don't want to inhibit that. You want to, as best you can, allow that to subside. That's where it's coming out the other side.
Oftentimes we think that, we don't want them to tremble. We want somebody to feel better right away. But that shaking that is happening, if they're supported and they feel safe enough and if there's another person, a compassionate other with you, where like the paramedic will come and look you in the eye and ask your name and talk to you and maybe, you know, if it's appropriate, you know, put a hand on your hand or something like that and allow the shaking.
to work its way through. The body will naturally shake it off.
Kim Vopni (11:54.057)
think about postpartum. I remember after giving birth, and I know it's quite common that the mom will, it's like trembling almost like shivering in a way. And so I'm looking at that differently now and viewing that as a response, even though even if it was the most perfect birth that you wanted, even if you wouldn't necessarily consider it traumatic, it still is, I argue quite a traumatic experience for the body.
And for the mind into into experience it especially when it's your first time and it's unknown. So Is that have you have you seen that connection before?
Deanna Lyons (12:31.276)
Yeah, absolutely. The birth of my daughter was traumatic too. We had an unplanned C-section. so, yes. again, this is where, and there's a lot of people that are learning somatic experiencing so that in the helping professions with nurses and doctors and ER professions, rather than inhibiting that, they could support you in that.
So, you know, sure, bringing you a blanket, being there with you, letting that transpire is where it's going to be best for both your mind and your body in the long run.
If it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean that you can't go back. And this is where somatic experiencing and tapping are great tools to be able to go back to that memory and renegotiate it and rewire what might be stuck in the past.
Kim Vopni (13:38.723)
Got it. Okay, so I want to come back to tapping this for those of you that are listening. I would invite you to go to the YouTube channel so you can watch because there are specific spots on the head the face the body hands where where you would tap and so if you can walk us through that what those points are and the questions I have is you're explaining it is every time I've seen it done we always start with the
They say the karate chop, is the side of the hand. Is there, what's the reason for always starting there?
Deanna Lyons (14:15.414)
It's my favorite part about tapping. And it's one of the things that also you asked me earlier and I didn't remember it till now, but one of the things I love, love, love about tapping is that we start here on the side of the hand or the karate chop point and we say, even though I'm feeling scared in this moment.
gold standard is I deeply and completely love and accept myself. So it's honoring both sides. Even though I'm having this problem, I deeply and completely love and accept myself. If that feels too big, which it often does when people are starting tapping, I'll start them with something like.
I feel okay in this moment, or I'm hoping to feel better as best I can in this moment. I'll break it down a little bit. But the idea in this point in terms of the acupressure and acupuncture points, this is a small intestine, it's a sorter. So small intestine meridian runs through here. And we're honoring the fact that you feel this way and you're okay.
Kim Vopni (15:15.34)
Hmm.
Deanna Lyons (15:25.918)
So many times we wanna rush to fix the problem. We skip over, don't feel that way. Well, it takes the body mind a little bit of time to sort that out. We'll get there. But it takes a little bit of time. And so that's the reason to start here and to include. Even though I have this problem, I'm okay.
Kim Vopni (15:31.82)
Mm-hmm.
Deanna Lyons (15:53.1)
And then we just work our way through the points. There's different, people have evolved over time in the way they use it. So you'll see sometimes people will do three setup statements, meaning they'll do three, even those, and they'll kind of reword them a little bit. Gary Craig started it that way. And over the years, he learned that it didn't make a difference if he did one or three. So he narrowed it down to one. So the school that I've been taught in also, we generally only do the setup statement one.
time. And then we work our way through the points. And so the top of the head is the next point. And this is the meeting with thousand minds in the Chinese acupuncture tradition. We come here to the eyebrow point, which is also kind of the inside of the eyebrow, if you will. And then we come over to the side of the eye.
and then down below the eye. And you can tap with one hand or the other hand or both. You can switch it while you're midstream. I often do that just without thinking about it. We come under the nose to what is called the chin. It's really the cleft area in the chin right here.
And then the collarbone is really kind of about an inch if you find that notch in the center. And you come down about an inch and you go over to either side about an inch. So you're really kind of right below the collarbone. And you can hit both of them. You can hit one of them. You can hit the other. Or you can kind of catch them both this way. I have a schematic that actually lines up.
what each point addresses in terms of the Chinese medicine tradition.
Deanna Lyons (17:51.566)
But it's really not, it's not important that you hit the right spot. All rivers lead to the ocean as my friend and actress reminds me. So this is just an effort to get all of them. And then I'm going to show you an awkward spot that a lot of traditions avoid. But I like to include it. My teacher includes it. It's right below the breast. It's below the, below the nipple for men. But for those of us that are a little more well endowed, it's right below the breast. And this is a liver point.
store lot of emotion in the liver so our tradition likes to keep it. And then we go to under the arm so that kind of middle of the bra strap. Once again you can hit both sides you can do just one side or the other side and then we close out with
tapping on the wrist, know, top and then bottom of the wrist. You'll see some people skip those points and some people will shortcut it and they, you know, they do it this way. All of them work. All rivers lead to the ocean. So if you see it done slightly differently than I've shown, it's okay. It's gonna work well.
But the one thing that I do like to remind people is don't be afraid of the negative. Don't be afraid of that first part even though I have this problem. I'm experiencing this problem.
I'm okay right now. And then we work through that negative piece. We take a little bit of time. If you think about when you were small and your mom said, don't feel that way, or your coach said, it's okay, get up and get going. We're now giving that part of you a chance to be heard that had to be rushed for really good reasons a lot of times. But if it's still bothering you, this is a great way
Deanna Lyons (19:46.976)
to address that part of you that's still stuck in the past and needed a little bit more time than was afforded for whatever reason. There's lots of reasons that happens. And then the reason why we're tapping ultimately is we're talking to the amygdala, which is the part of the brain that turns on the fight or flight response. It doesn't know language.
So the tapping communicates to that part of the brain that says, hey, Kim's okay. Concerned about something, but okay. And the talking allows the thinking mind to chew on it and to come out the other side. And this is why, like you've had the experience and I have and so many others love tapping is because all of sudden, the...
the clouds part and you start to, your amygdala can tone down. It realizes, there was a problem and she's okay. There was a problem and she's okay. And now I can let my guard down. I don't have to be on guard all the time.
So that's the beauty of tapping. Plus it's so simple that we can teach it to people in all sorts of ways. I even used it myself. I had a surgery a year or two ago and all of a sudden when the lights came on, they hadn't completely put me out and the big lights came on and I started to freak out and my arms were, you know.
strapped down, so I couldn't really do anything. I couldn't tap, but I remembered the points and I just went through it as if I was tapping and it calmed me down right before I went under. And boy, you know, when you go under, know, as you go in, you will come out. So whatever you can do to keep yourself calm, it's going to be helpful.
Kim Vopni (21:29.578)
strap down.
Kim Vopni (21:52.065)
Yeah.
When you were just showing the points, there was a slight variation. what I have learned, I start with the side of the hand, then I go to the eyebrows, side of the eye, under the eye, and then I have never heard of the under the breast, then I would do the under the arm, and then I would end with the top of the head. So after the hand, you started with the head and worked down. What would be the rationale for one versus the other?
Deanna Lyons (22:24.67)
Really, they're both okay. The rationale to go to the top of the head is just to remember it. The ease, like you don't have to remember, do I start here or where do I start? Yeah, you know, you've been doing it long enough that you'll remember that, but especially when you're new.
Kim Vopni (22:34.922)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, top down, yes.
Kim Vopni (22:43.212)
Right.
Deanna Lyons (22:43.924)
it's just you just start at the top of the head and again this is the lineage that I work with is that's the main reason it's just for ease of memory and then you know you just make your way down the bottom and a lot of people just dropped the know the the below the nipple you know right under the chest point because it is awkward
Kim Vopni (22:57.196)
Got it, got it.
Kim Vopni (23:06.028)
Mm-hmm.
Deanna Lyons (23:07.118)
And so, and if all rivers lead to the ocean, it's okay if you miss it. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (23:11.626)
It's okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I haven't seen also the the ending with the back and like the top and the bottom of the of the rest too. So anyway, with the practice that I have done or that I do it, I do my reverse leading to the ocean. So I don't feel like I've been missing out. But I will try the next time just to see if notice any any difference.
But you mentioned you have a schematic. Is that something that you have available where we could provide? We could provide a link? Yeah.
Deanna Lyons (23:43.608)
Yes. Yes. I'll have to put it in a link right now. It's a PDF, but I'll make sure it's a link so that it's something that we can provide as a link.
Deanna Lyons (23:56.96)
writing a little note.
Kim Vopni (23:58.442)
And I'm just noticing for some reason my camera is not working. High load on your device. Okay, hang on one second. I'm just gonna close a couple of other things here and see if that helps.
Deanna Lyons (24:05.142)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (24:20.322)
Technical difficulties are always so fun.
Deanna Lyons (24:23.182)
All right.
Kim Vopni (24:31.797)
support. So what we may need to do
Kim Vopni (24:49.578)
Okay, it says we're recording, but hang on one second, I just want to make sure that it has recorded what else we have done. So hang on one second. Sorry about this. I haven't had this happen before. Let's see what happens.
Deanna Lyons (24:59.479)
get it.
And I'm not familiar with Riverside.
Kim Vopni (25:07.234)
Riverside is, I actually really love it and it's always been very, okay, so the first one it looks like it is, we're just gonna hope that this is still happening here. So, okay, let me just open this back up here. Okay, so we'll carry on from here and hopefully it's either we're still on the same recording or the other one is uploading as well. Where were we, the points, yeah, so the,
You mentioned that you have a schematic and is that something that people can access via a link? that something you have that available for purchase or can people find that so that they can learn more if they want?
Deanna Lyons (25:43.714)
Yeah, I'll provide it for you afterwards. I need to upload it to my website, but I can do that easily enough so that there'll be a link. Yeah, and then there'll be a little PDF that they can download and they can have. It's kind of fun to see it, and so I created that just to ease the thinking mind as to what you're doing and kind of why you're doing it. And you'll begin to notice, too, that as you start to tap, you'll find certain points that you really like.
Kim Vopni (25:49.783)
that'd be amazing. That'd be amazing. Okay.
Kim Vopni (26:13.239)
Mm-hmm.
Deanna Lyons (26:14.254)
and then it might explain why you like those points better.
Kim Vopni (26:17.174)
Yeah, well, I noticed that even just even without saying anything, if I just if I'm in a stressful state or something is making me feel anxious, just starting to do the karate chop point without even saying anything at all. It immediately has a little bit of a it's almost like my body's like, okay, she's going to do the the the safety.
practice something like that right and I feel like it there's a sense of calm and then and I also would say that right now I haven't. I haven't mastered doing it on my own with the I can do even though statement and I do end with the I deeply love and respect myself the other parts of it is where I prefer to have some guidance initially and so I follow an app that that walks you through all sorts of different practices and my question is.
Deanna Lyons (26:43.98)
It does.
Kim Vopni (27:10.892)
You've talked about the even though and it's usually referencing we're acknowledging a stressful time and that we are okay. In the app that I use there are also positive ones where it's not even necessarily that we're trying to overcome a negative experience. It could be setting the tone for a positive day. It could be calming before sleep. So nothing necessarily that we need to resolve but something that we could just
enjoy the practice of so can you comment a little on that as to why like is there benefit to doing this just without even any necessarily negative experience?
Deanna Lyons (27:52.206)
It's absolutely great to do. And the only caveat that I have about that is if you're not in resonance with it, do a little bit of tapping around that first. So what I mean is, for instance, I'm ready to have a calm sleep, peaceful sleep.
Kim Vopni (28:05.528)
What do you mean by that?
Deanna Lyons (28:16.342)
this evening. I'm gonna go to sleep. But you're not really calm or you're doing it and you're like I'm just I'm not calming down. Then you want to back it up and you might know why and you might not know why. This is what I'm going to share next is actually I hope this will make sense and this will help you with tapping.
Kim Vopni (28:23.138)
Mm.
Deanna Lyons (28:39.17)
people get worried about what to say. so using an app like you're using is a great way to do that. And also what I would encourage you is whatever is ruminating in your mind, that's your tapping. So just tap. This is what I'm thinking. This is what I'm feeling. This is what I'm telling to myself. These are the things I'm worried about. And you start actually all those thoughts that are going on in your mind anyway.
Kim Vopni (28:51.478)
Yeah.
Deanna Lyons (29:08.674)
They keep on the hamster wheel, but if they have the hamster wheel along with tapping, it allows the amygdala to calm down. The fight or flight response tones down. And then you can be open to finishing out on the positive side.
So I love it. It's kind of in terms of Gary Craig's teachings and my teacher's teachings. What we're trying to do is clear out any tail-enders. Meaning I'm ready to have calm and peaceful sleep. But if that's not true, like if it's not feeling really achievable, we want to clear that part first and then it will pave the way
Kim Vopni (29:52.034)
Got it.
Deanna Lyons (29:58.752)
for the other, and then you wanna tap that in. So it's great to do. Affirmations are beautiful. Similarly though, if you don't believe it, as Joe Dispenza says, the thought sends a signal out and the feeling draws it back to us. So you can think all you want, but if the feeling isn't really quite congruent,
We want to just clear that and then that affirmation will work really well.
Kim Vopni (30:32.857)
Got it. Yeah. And that gives a little bit more freedom for me in terms of just like, you know, it doesn't have to be an exact say this three times before you and go through this many times before you switch to the positive. But generally we start with acknowledging something bothersome, negative, frustrating, whatever this the feeling of that is and acknowledge we're okay. We can still tap through with other possible struggles that we're dealing with and then
carrying on. at some point we then transition to, I'm okay, I'm going to move forward, I will get through this, know, those types of
Deanna Lyons (31:11.938)
You got it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then it's going to, then it's really going to resonate and it's going to stick and you're going to have better benefits long-term. It doesn't hurt to do the other, you're going to really receive better benefits long-term and really enjoy the practice and get more out of what you're looking to achieve.
Kim Vopni (31:12.77)
talking points, yeah?
Kim Vopni (31:35.202)
Yeah. Is there, again, the app I use, there are, and you've alluded to the fact that you start with just one as opposed to say three times as the reflective statement. What was that that you called it? Is that what you called it? The setup statement, thank you. And then you sort of through, looked as if it was like one cycle through and then we're done. There are, some people may do the three setup statements. Could they potentially do...
Deanna Lyons (31:48.335)
the setup statement.
Kim Vopni (32:02.988)
multiple rounds of all the points. So is there a magic time that you would do this? Two minutes, 10 minutes is more better.
Deanna Lyons (32:12.206)
It's a great question. So there's kind of two parts. The first thing that I will say is the magic is when you notice a shift. So I will, it's kind of random for me. know it can be really helpful to have a framework like you're experiencing with that app. So it's a great place to start.
But in practice, a real session where I work with somebody, if I can tell there's a shift, I'll stop after one round. If not, I'll keep going until I notice the shift within myself or the client that I'm working with. And that might happen mid-round. What's a shift look like? All of a sudden, you notice you take a deeper breath.
You start looking around the room. Instead of being really narrow focused, can start to see, wait a minute, I've got that. Yawning is really common. Burping, laughing, there'll be some, or they'll just be in an emotional shift. You'll see with a client, I'll see a little light in their eye. There'll be a new thought that'll come in and I'll see that for them. And you'll feel that yourself too as you do it more. And that's the point to possibly
cause.
And then this is where, and I'm not sure if your app does this or not, but where you rate yourself. So before you get started, right, you know, if you're feeling anxiety, well, the way I kind of work with clients is I say, all right, you're feeling this anxiety on a scale of zero to 10, zero, it's not there, 10, it's off the charts, because we can always come up with really big numbers, right? We're feeling really anxious. So I try to help that so we can kind of keep going, right? And they still might say, yeah,
Deanna Lyons (34:04.954)
well, it's a 20. And that's all right. That gives us the idea that that's where it is. And as we tap and then we're looking for that shift of some sort and we pause, then at that point, it's a great time to reflect. Okay, when we started, I was feeling at a 20, know, on that scale up to 10, and now I'm down to a seven.
Kim Vopni (34:30.412)
Yeah, yeah, mine does do that and I like that it's always before we start rate out of one to 10 and then at the end it asks you to re rate so obviously trying to look for some sort of a shift and yeah.
Deanna Lyons (34:42.784)
Right. And then the thing about it is, is that it's your evaluation of it. So this is again, what I like about it is that it's not me diagnosing a client. You're actually stating what feels true to you. So we're working together side by side. And then that number, ideally we want it to go down, right? I mean, that's why we do all these things. But that number just gives us good information. If the number stays the same,
We haven't been specific enough. Tapping works really well when you're specific. If the number went up...
I encourage people to just keep on going because you have hit pay dirt. And it's ready to come out and it's feeling safe enough to come out. And so then just jump right back into your tapping cycle because it'll start to release. It generally will start to release. And there's a technique that if it doesn't, we can use what's called the nine gamut technique, which works the right and left parts of the brain. It alternates it.
And so that's another way to help bring something down that won't come down within a regular tapping frame. again, ideally we're working our way down, but if it stays the same, just get more specific. If it's gone up, stay with it. You're onto something and relief is on its way.
Kim Vopni (36:02.84)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (36:09.11)
With the population that I work with, are people who generally people are coming to me with with a pelvic floor challenge and that could be pain. It could be incontinence. It could be pelvic organ prolapse. It could be vaginal dry. Like there's a list of things that people can struggle with. There are some people who will make progress. Some make progress very quickly. Some people completely overcome their symptoms.
Some people get to a point of improvement and it's kind of management. And so it's kind of that category of people where it's the chronic condition. It's the one where you there's a grieving usually people are grieving the loss of certain types of exercise of relationships of a certain lifestyle they used to lead knowing that they need to make changes or shifts because of this new.
pelvic floor challenge that they're dealing with. So when you're dealing with someone with a chronic health struggle, what would some of the wording look like? Like if you could kind of walk through, even though I face this diagnosis or even though I'm struggling with these symptoms, is that kind of where somebody would start?
Deanna Lyons (37:20.75)
That's where that's exactly right. would start with even though I'm struggling. let's just kind of, I'm just going to go with it and see what comes out. this is again back to the idea of what comes to mind. You're going to watch it come to mind for me and it will come for your clients. It will come for you as well. So that's what I mean. if I were,
Kim Vopni (37:30.156)
Yeah, yeah.
Kim Vopni (37:38.392)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Deanna Lyons (37:47.714)
I'm looking for, if I can find the emotion that's coming with that grief, right? So there's this sadness, or maybe it's fear of what's happening.
Kim Vopni (37:56.952)
fear, anger, resentment.
Deanna Lyons (38:00.942)
So if I can get a hold of the emotion to tap on, I'll usually try to do that. But I also want to encourage you and your listeners, if you don't know, don't worry about it. Tap on whatever is there, and then it will reveal itself what's to do next. So let's just pretend. let's just say...
even though my body hasn't shifted as much as I've wanted it to.
I'm choosing to love and accept my body as best I can in this moment. And then we'll move to the top of the head. This hasn't shifted.
And I feel sad about it. And I also feel mad about it. And I don't know if anything's gonna ever help.
And that feels overwhelming.
Deanna Lyons (39:07.852)
I've tried so many things.
and I don't know where to go now.
Deanna Lyons (39:18.286)
I don't if this tapping thing is gonna help. It's kinda weird. I'm tapping on parts of my body. Tapping on my face. How is this gonna help?
I really don't know.
And what if it could help just a little bit?
It's true that I haven't resolved it yet.
But some things have shifted.
Deanna Lyons (39:52.802)
And I want to acknowledge that too.
And so we'll pause here, right? Because you can kind of see what happened was I took myself all the way through that cycle and then, well, wait a minute, there have been some things that have shifted. So then what happens is like, okay, well, that's great, Deanna, but I still have this. And so you would go right into it even though there's still this issue.
I'm choosing to explore a more calm and peaceful place within myself on my healing journey.
Kim Vopni (40:32.77)
Got it, that was awesome.
Deanna Lyons (40:34.23)
And then you kind of, and then again, you you keep going. The other thing that I like to include is kind of a bonus, you know, with my clients is color. Oftentimes, you know, we just don't know what's going on, but I'll ask what, if there were a support of color, what might that be?
And that gives them something a little bit broader to focus on. then I have a book. I'll just share my favorite little book. It's called The Wisdom of the Colormares by Corianni Colley and Melissa Jolly. And almost every time, this idea of kind of at the end of a session, whatever color they'll choose and they'll go, I don't really like pink, but I'm seeing pink. And it will summarize the session we just did. It's really fun.
Kim Vopni (41:21.408)
Hmm, interesting.
Deanna Lyons (41:24.208)
of other books out there about color, but it can be another fun way if you find yourself kind of getting stuck to help break the dam a little bit.
Kim Vopni (41:35.192)
What would be the reason why somebody would choose to work like when you do a session? So I would assume it'd be something either in person or maybe even over zoom like this versus doing it on their own.
Deanna Lyons (41:47.246)
When you're stuck, know, you, and, and that tapping is one of many great tools that you can do by yourself. And I love it for that reason. I send it, I send it home with my clients all the time. But if you're still not getting the results you're looking for, oftentimes you just need a.
compassionate third party to kind of help you see what you can't see. And then someone like myself is also trained to observe what's happening for you. And trust me, I need it too. One of my girlfriends called me this morning and she also is tapping practitioner and she was wound up about something. And I asked her, you tapping? And she's like, Deanna.
Kim Vopni (42:11.906)
guide.
Deanna Lyons (42:37.094)
You had to remind me of that. She does it with me too. We forget. So sometimes we just need a third person to come in, or another person to come in and help us go through it. One of the other things that Peter Levine talks about in the somatic experiencing world and trauma resolution is one of the key components of resolution is coming out the other side to a compassionate other.
So that's where if the EMT that's working with you is really compassionate and helps you.
through the experience, you might not be traumatized from your car accident as much as you would have otherwise. It's not their job to have to worry about your emotions per se, but it's sometimes where you'll see the difference. And then they might not be able to take that time because they've got to get you somewhere faster, right? They're not going to be able to do all of that, so they'll do their best. And then they got to jump in and drive off and get you in the hospital.
your system at that time it wasn't enough. So you'll come back later. But it's really those patterns that you can tell they're there and they're just not resolving. That's when I think it's good to get some extra help.
Kim Vopni (43:49.709)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (44:00.876)
Yeah, what would it if you go back to you know, the person struggling with chronic health and in this case pelvic floor dysfunction, what would the difference be between the tapping and a somatic experiencing session with you? Or what could what could a person do on their own for somatic experiencing?
Deanna Lyons (44:19.82)
Somatic experiencing, one of the things that you can do easily on your own is to notice where the pain is so that whatever, know, typically like say with pelvic floor dysfunction, there's often a pain or a frustration. You know, I'm still, you know, peeing more than I want to at night or you know, whatever that is. So if you can notice what you're feeling when you have those thoughts, if you can notice where it is in your body.
And then notice it. We're not trying to change it. I want to be really careful that you hear that we're not trying to change it. We're observing it. And then take a look at a picture of somebody that you see that you love in your room. Or look outside and see the blue sky. And just notice that for a moment. And then come back to that pain or that worry that's happening in your body. Notice that.
and then go back out and notice the blue sky. And this is called pendulation. We're pendulating between the one thing and the other. They're both happening currently. You can also, if looking out as far, you might have, there's a pain in your pelvis, but where is there not pain in your body? Might be your right big toe.
so you could pendulate between the right big toe and the pain in your pelvis. Again, not to fix it, but to let the nervous system know because it's trying to focus on correcting the pain, but there is more going on.
If you were out in the wild and there was a bear coming at you, you're not going to stop and think about your little big toe. You're going to run. But if you're in a place where you could take the time and the effort to do that, it'll start to dissipate. And then again, that breaks it apart and begins to allow the body to do its natural healing.
Deanna Lyons (46:28.16)
And so you might be surprised with just that simple practice. There are other things, but that's one of the cornerstones of somatic experiencing, is to do pendulation. You'd be surprised at what you can shift, like we can shift with tapping.
Kim Vopni (46:45.571)
Mm-hmm.
Deanna Lyons (46:46.37)
What I like about tapping is tapping really, we're storytellers and we want to tell our story. And tapping really gives a lot of room for that, but you're also down regulating the nervous system at the same time. Semantic experiencing, you get it, but not as much. We're gonna hear less of the story and we're gonna focus more on the sensation and the other components that are involved.
Kim Vopni (47:15.5)
Got it. One final question is kind of in the same realm of somebody dealing with a lot of people deal with tension in their pelvic floor and I focus a lot on teaching people optimal breath and posture and release techniques and some people you know it's kind of like just just relax just release and and get you know sometimes doing the exercises isn't necessarily getting us to that point but if somebody was say doing.
I have an exercise called the posterior pelvic floor release where we sit on a ball, like a tennis ball or a yoga tuna ball. And we, we are asking the, we want the ball to be like a strawberry and the muscles to be like chocolate that melts over that strawberry. So we want to release some tension. If we were doing the practices simultaneously sitting on the ball or doing some sort of other release or stretch while tapping.
and using language to ask that part of the body to let go of some tension. I feel like that would be really helpful. And you're nodding. So I'm thinking you're agreeing with me. Yeah, yeah.
Deanna Lyons (48:16.786)
I hey, yeah, let's do it. I mean, I'd love to work with you some time and actually do that with some of your clients and see how it goes. Because where I would go with that is even in a group setting, some of them are catching it and some of them are not, right?
Kim Vopni (48:25.57)
Mm-hmm.
Deanna Lyons (48:36.554)
So we can work with that in such a way that we kind of bring everybody together as best we can. know, something like even though some of us are, it's working really well and some of us it's not. And yet, we're all here working together.
And then we would take our way through the tapping points to assist with that. Because again, what I would do likely, and I'm just thinking off the top of my head, but I would want to hear the feedback from the community. What are they noticing? And what's working, what's not working? And so that would help me create the script live with those people that are there, which are often like others that are listening in later, right?
Kim Vopni (49:22.86)
Yeah. Yeah.
Deanna Lyons (49:24.515)
And so yeah, it would be fun to explore that sometime with your community.
Kim Vopni (49:27.126)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, that would be really cool. it on one of our group coaching calls. Have you come in and take us through a tapping session would be really cool. Okay, well, where can people find you and learn more? Follow along on social media, find your website and learn more about if they maybe even wanted to come and work with you.
Deanna Lyons (49:45.742)
Sure. The best way probably to find me is my website, is dnalliance.com. D-E-A-N-N-A-L-Y-O-N-S dot com. I also have a little YouTube channel that's, you know, I don't have a ton of stuff on there, but it's growing a little bit as we go. And, you know, also you can find me there at dnalliance. And then I have Instagram and Facebook.
and linkedin so I can provide you know all of those I believe and both Facebook and Instagram is Deanna Lyons dot EFT so those would be the easiest ways to find me and I think I even did that on on linkedin as well but I can provide you with all the links
Kim Vopni (50:27.052)
Yeah, we'll have the links in the show notes for people to be able to find you and the link for that schematic too, which would be really cool. Thank you so much. This was really cool. You've answered a lot of the questions that I've had about tapping and this is something that I want to plan some workouts where I'm incorporating some tapping into especially the release part of the practices. And yeah, thanks for kind of confirming and guiding me through that. It was super helpful.
Deanna Lyons (50:55.188)
You're welcome. It's my pleasure. I love sharing and I really appreciate the opportunity to get to meet you and your listeners. Thanks.
Kim Vopni (51:04.023)
Awesome, thank you.
