Kim Vopni (00:01.738)
Nam, I am so happy to have you on the podcast. This is going to be such a, everybody I think is going to have to watch the video part of this because you have lots of gadgets. You like props like I do. And so there's going to be demonstrations and really your whole, well, it's initially how I found.
I started following you because of your Instagram posts and then lo and behold, we ended up being in the same business mastermind group where I got to know you even better and I absolutely adore what you do. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation and all the fun body parts you're going to highlight and tell us to push on and different things to do. People are like, what the heck are we talking about? But first of all, thank you for joining me, but I would love to have you start out by telling us who you are.
Nam Lee (00:42.548)
I you all.
Kim Vopni (00:51.456)
What is the topic that you share on Instagram so passionately and what brought you to this world of, I'll let you finish that sentence.
Nam Lee (01:00.852)
Thank you, Kim. So I am Eastern Medicine Practitioner for the last 23 years. In my clinic, at this time, we're serving so many patients trying to build their family. So I'm known as Eastern Medicine Fertility Specialized Acupuncturist, and also I'm Postural Trainer.
And I love herbs. Initially when I start being in the healthcare, because I was engineer before, I was engineer, chemical engineer.
Kim Vopni (01:27.569)
really? I didn't know that.
Nam Lee (01:32.552)
But being an acupuncturist or Eastern medicine practitioner is my high school dream. This is I dreamed when I was studying until 11 p.m. in Korea and then walking back home and looking at the star and I said, I wanna be Eastern medicine practitioner. And eventually it ended up not immediately after high school, but it take me to the where I am now. So I live in my dream.
Kim Vopni (01:44.045)
You
Nam Lee (02:01.74)
And one thing I love about this in the healthcare and personally, because I share so much ancient wisdom with the patients or even not my patient, direct patient. And that's been so much fun. I mean, you said that you follow me. I didn't know actually you follow me first. I thought that we met in the mastermind first. But I just meeting so many people and then learn about how much people can
Kim Vopni (02:22.924)
You
Nam Lee (02:31.634)
change their life by knowing just a little simple things and I'm very fascinated I'm still trying to make my contents better and then connect it and then communicate so this is another my big step jump up and then being in your podcast it's a truly my honor I'm so excited to share so yes let's go
Kim Vopni (02:54.094)
All right, let's go. Okay, well, so a lot of what you share, I don't know, I think probably the first post I ever saw was you use lots of little stickers that you apply to different parts of the body. So that's of course social media wise, what the heck, it makes me stop the scroll and figure out what is this woman doing, putting these stickers or round circles on their face. when you started your social media journey and you started sharing,
Nam Lee (03:08.05)
everywhere.
Kim Vopni (03:21.62)
Is the sticker just to highlight a part of the body or is that actually something to do from an acupuncture perspective?
Nam Lee (03:29.158)
eggie puncture point sometimes a little harder for even practitioner to locate it. And because we all look different.
So when I watch some people other videos and I say, where exactly are talking about? I couldn't really ask them. So that's why I started using this stickers because the I want them to see because I know my point, but other people, don't know point in their own body. So there's a lot of measurement, but it just show because we are all visual. So that's what I start. Not even intentionally, just either the
It's easy for me to even stimulate and in all different color. I love all those colors. So I didn't know it was a, it captured your attention, but that's how I started. But it was all, everything is just a happy accident.
Kim Vopni (04:17.058)
captured my attention. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (04:22.21)
Yeah, yeah. So what, guess let's start with what would you, when you say Eastern medicine, what does that mean? And with regards to acupuncture, for those that aren't familiar, some people will know acupuncture either having had a treatment or they may know that it involves needles, but what is acupuncture and how is it working? So I guess kind of an overview of Eastern medicine and acupuncture.
Nam Lee (04:48.0)
Eastern medicine is big. Eastern medicine includes acupuncture. I think probably half of medicine is alveology. Eastern medicine has a huge resource on to utilize in this earth. So alveology component and then acupuncture I think is maybe like a 40%. My initial attraction for Eastern medicine was actually alveology but acupuncture is widely known here in the West because it's effective.
and then there's not much side effect. And then it's more standardized and insurance covers. So when people are coming in Eastern medicine, they always start with the mostly acupuncture referred by doctor or the friends. And Eastern medicine has also lifestyle and then movement because you are so good at those exercise and all those we have that with maybe Qigong or Tai Chi and also small part of a cupping and Gua Sha and then people know a lot.
And the Eastern medicine is kind of a combined with the Western medicine and functional medicine together. So how you leave your body in the daily activities and then utilizing some resource is a slay out there and then how you can stimulate and then triggers. And beauty of Eastern medicine is absolutely whole person approach and the more holistic approach than just a symptom relief. We see in Western medicine a lot. So people
I grew up with this medicine. When I was young and I had some problem, my mom just gave me something so I'm drinking it. I wasn't really happy because a lot of this condensed form of herbal medicine was very bitter and acupuncture in Asia is still little bit strong stimulation than we experience here. But when my patients are here, they even widely accept this and I'm seeing people, very holistic and natural minded,
Approach and the people more welcoming so I'm very excited but Eastern medicine being used for like a three thousand years old in the some part of a in the world and still is Primary care so Eastern medicine is not only pain relief We know I mean because we hear talking about pelvic floor or some discomfort in the physical area But Eastern medicine is a primary care. So we do a lot of internal disease, which is a hormone
Nam Lee (07:17.43)
stress or fertility which I specialized and then also do a lot of a support medicine we do and now people even use for more cosmetic like I have one patient just texted me this morning and I want some cosmetic acupuncture so Eastern Medicine see whole person and then proven to be used for long time so it's actually very safe medicine to me.
Kim Vopni (07:41.103)
A good friend of mine here, he is a Chinese medicine doctor as well. And I've had many of his herbal potions and I haven't, mean, they all taste terrible. And I always joke with them because they taste like garbage, but they work. yeah. And I mean, he goes back and he mixes everything. And anyway, they all are sort of like various forms of dirt, bitter dirt tasting. Yeah. Yeah.
Nam Lee (08:05.96)
dirt actually we use dirt too and then the rocks believe it or not
Kim Vopni (08:11.47)
Yeah, but it has worked for any time I've ever gone to see him and I've had acupuncture treatment from him as well, which I absolutely love. And he does the cupping with the fire and it's extraordinary. And I'm so fascinated to watch. I remember my son had this back injury he was dealing with from soccer and my friend Dr. Aran, he was using cupping with the heat and I filmed it.
to show my son what was happening on his back too and it's just so fascinating. absolutely love love love love it. So you mentioned you specialize right now with fertility. It's definitely kind of stems from a whole body approach. We're going to focus very much on sort of the reproductive organs, the pelvic floor, bladder, uterus, rectum, constipation. So within that realm, what are some of the more common
I guess complaints or challenges that people come to. You mentioned endometriosis initially as being something that people come to you with. Maybe we can start there or just general problems of the uterus or reproductive system. What sort of things do you see?
Nam Lee (09:23.528)
Yeah, because since we specialize in women's health and fertility, we actually do a lot of IVF support.
So more than half of our patients are going through IVF right now. So we start target like ovaries to improve egg quality. And later we move on to uterus to help the implantation. That's exactly IVF process. But also we have so many patients are going through fertility challenge and try to conceive naturally. So we focus on both organs. When I'm looking at here, we know 40 % of a female coming to our door to conceive eats
naturally or through the art which is IVF or IUI, there are 40 % is unexplained and we called unexplained infertility. So what it means we don't know what your problem is and then there might be a little bit of a usual suspect but it's not there significant so we just label them as unexplained and patient themselves to label themselves as unexplained which is very problematic because if we don't know why you have this problem how you can fix
it as a practitioner or as a patient. So when patients are coming, there's a numbers really give you clue though. And patients, especially 40 % of a patient infertility is unexplained infertility. And 20 to 50 % of those unexplained infertility is silent endopatiion, silent endometriosis patient. So when patients are coming with, oh, I have a fibroid.
or I have some cysts and I have a UTI, I have a constipation, I have a gas and bleeding, I'm always suspicious. Is this a silent endo? And then if I approach, because I have some little clue and then we improve those patients based on probably hidden silent endo, their treatment gets really bring the good result.
Nam Lee (11:23.86)
So that's, I'm very passionate about to share with the patients because when we are saying unexplained and actually here, like stop calling me for this is a book I just published and I talk about a lot of endometriosis here and somehow it is a little bit of taboo. don't really want to say, do you have an endometriosis or do you have a silent endometriosis? So in our clinic, we try to improve acupuncture or Eastern medicine with the herbs.
Kim Vopni (11:45.038)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (11:54.006)
improve those patients' inflammation and then balance hormones and the circulation, which is my treatment for silent endometriosis or known endometriosis in change their projectory of a treatment so much. So I just really want to highlight it and emphasize what I am seeing a little slightly different than other practitioner does. Because I think...
Kim Vopni (12:09.816)
Mm-hmm, interesting.
Nam Lee (12:20.562)
Chasing symptom by symptom, it works for temporarily, but if you're missing, there's a huge picture behind of this root cause, which is inflammation driven by the silent ender. I think you're missing and then you are not serving your patients well.
Kim Vopni (12:36.066)
Yeah, I've never heard anybody use the term silent endo. I've heard the term endometriosis a lot and it's become, I feel like it's become much more talked about and known about over the last few years, thanks probably to social media and awareness, but I've heard somebody talk about the term silent. So kind of people who don't know that the other symptoms they have are driven because of endometriosis, they aren't aware that they have.
So when you think about it from, let's start with the acupuncture perspective, you talked about improving circulation, reducing inflammation, helping, I'm kind of visualizing the pathway of the egg, the release of the egg, the passage of it over into the uterus. what would an acupuncture treatment look like in somebody who is dealing with this silent endo?
Where would it like I'm not exactly I'm not asking for the exact locations, but where what would it look like if a person is on your treatment table? Where would you be putting the needles? What would a treatment with acupuncture look like and how many sessions would somebody typically? come for
Nam Lee (13:48.34)
Sure.
That's very common question, especially men comes like, okay, I have a male factor. Where are you going to put the needle? Sorry. No, no, no, not there. Okay. So when patients are coming, also you're looking at the root cause, but also you have a symptom. So when I have a patient coming with a fertility problems, we definitely want to improve circulation in the pelvic area. there's some needle goes there based on the research because we try to combine more research based treatment and the
Kim Vopni (13:54.774)
Yeah.
You
Nam Lee (14:19.156)
more experience the treatment together. So there's some point for abdominal area for localized circulation in micro circulation. also this is all condition is a whole body systemic inflammation to me as well and the stress. So we have some point is hands and feet and then also some head and sometimes the ear. So we have so much fun.
Kim Vopni (14:21.56)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (14:43.654)
And a lot of research also emphasize efficacy of electro-acupuncture, because it's more like amplifying the treatment itself. So we do some electro-strategically, it depends on the patient's condition. It can be a little change case by case. And we also employ modern-day science. We do a lot of red light therapy, because we use a lot for like a skin and then inflammation. So we use that for everybody, anybody coming to our door. And not only front side.
Because you have a needle on the front. We cannot treat you front and back together, but actually we do. So we use a back treatment along the front, not a needle, like a different technique. We call it a TIS technique. It's not an ERPS, but it's a T-E-A-S, using the transcutaneous electro stimulation. And then we put in the bag, and then we put in the needle on the front, and then a little cable is going, and then you have a dome of a light there, and then point the ear and head. It's a horse!
Kim Vopni (15:18.207)
same time, yeah.
Kim Vopni (15:38.382)
Mmm.
Nam Lee (15:43.43)
system, whole body, because your body give you so much clue. There's so many points you can influence each other.
Kim Vopni (15:44.16)
Wow.
Nam Lee (15:54.834)
So no matter if it is a silent endo or PCOS or you name it or it's an age factor, and we have to utilize the whole system to jumpstart. It cannot be just, okay, uterus or ovaries, because it's your advanced maternal age. Let's help your ovaries to improve your egg quality. No, you have to improve a whole person along the targeted area.
Kim Vopni (16:22.99)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So fascinating. I have a really cool image in my mind of what your treatments look like. Okay, so I want to get specific on a couple of things that my community typically struggles with. One being urgent continence, waking multiple times a night to pee. So let's start there, kind of from a bladder health.
Nam Lee (16:27.924)
Pokébye.
Kim Vopni (16:48.706)
perspective, can herbs and acupuncture and other factors within Eastern medicine help improve bladder health?
Nam Lee (16:57.332)
Oh, absolutely. I don't know you in Canada, correct? So US...
Kim Vopni (17:02.595)
Yes.
Nam Lee (17:05.204)
There is a lot of treatment available in doctor's office utilizing acupuncture Yeah, I've posted TV and nervous stimulation and then we use that in our clinic and I got a call from this person from someplace far away and they want to Share want us to share like how you use this protocol as a acupuncturist So simply what it is there is a record a split six point and I don't I can really show my leg in your leg
Kim Vopni (17:12.344)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (17:31.246)
Clean six, okay?
Nam Lee (17:35.11)
and then four fingers up from your ankle bone and the medial side. And actually all this is in my post and it's actually very vital post because so many people are suffering right now. And then splint six is where the nerve passing, but also same time it's for us point for balance hormones and then a beautiful whole place for female related issues. And then that point is excellent point to use.
also use the bottom of the feet as well. So when you go to the urology, they do both sides with the tensile unit and the needle on the ankle area. So that's a simple treatment they can do. And there's also great point. There's a research. There's so many research already out there. That's good news. And you can do your abdominal, like three fingers up from your pubic symphysis. And then there's a middle line. And then this we call the conception meridian. And then that point is a very effective point.
Kim Vopni (18:10.094)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (18:34.944)
point. Or you can just simply go to your sacrum and then kind of stimulate with whatever like a soft ball or something you can do the foam roller and then those sacral area also we see very effective. So we use that as acupuncture point. But people can still use in the home. And I have ear here.
Kim Vopni (18:58.904)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (19:01.488)
upper part of your ear, like here, this area. There's a lot of uterus and then bladder coming in this. So if you have some challenges and you can hold this and then massage it. So.
Kim Vopni (19:14.446)
So pressing with your fingers, so kind of squeezing on the top part of your ear. Yep.
Nam Lee (19:16.188)
You can do fingers, yes. I made something called rice patch. So you have any tape and then you can put maybe two raw rice and then you can make a little patch and then you can place here and then you can just press and then it's acupressure. Correct? Yeah, you're right.
Kim Vopni (19:33.71)
So you put the rice on the tape and then you would stick that tape with the rice against your skin onto the specific point on your ear.
Nam Lee (19:41.618)
Right, right. There is some people actually selling it already made with something called the baccaria seed. So ear patch, but you can make it at home. It's just like a rice and it's still good enough. So as I said, there is a clue. I mean, you can, can, the CV, the abdominal area is where actually bladder is. So you are helping those bladder, but you can do backside and you can do ear and you can do your leg. So.
Kim Vopni (19:53.39)
interesting.
Nam Lee (20:11.562)
I think that made my contents very valuable for so many people. Because you can do immediately and then people see the change very fast.
Kim Vopni (20:22.51)
So in the moment, if I'm thinking of these, applying pressure on the ear, you would need to go and watch Nam's videos to see where to press on your ear. But once you've identified that point, either pressing or massaging or using the rice tape, as you mentioned, is that something that will in the moment calm an urge or is it something that when you do it over time, it would help eliminate that urge?
Nam Lee (20:46.324)
I love that. Equipuncture is very fast. And I have so many people, when you're looking at the Instagram contents, they always said, is this placebo? Why it works so fast? They all say so.
I had one recent video, like a mucus. People developing a lot of mucus and cough. So I said, okay, the long point here. And I just made that video. And it was actually a TikTok video. TikTok and Instagram together. But TikTok people so fast. They always said, it must be placebo. I how it can be just immediately got better. Sometimes like that.
Kim Vopni (21:24.3)
Yeah. Fascinating. So we can have an in the moment response and then we could also as part of sort of an ongoing maintenance plan as a way to help manage good. And you mentioned, I just want to come back to, you mentioned PT and ask percutaneous tibial nerve stimulation, which is, as you say, it's acupuncture needles and there are doctors offices who are doing this is, so is the placement that a doctor
Nam Lee (21:33.79)
Both correct.
Kim Vopni (21:52.761)
who's not necessarily Eastern medicine trained, is it in the same spot as where you would put it? You know, the four fingers above the ankle into the spleen six point.
Nam Lee (22:02.708)
So when I had a meeting with a urologist, they're not using it exactly. But acupuncture point is a very generous point. So they are going to the more nerve. We are going to the more acupuncture point location. But they're close enough. Some point is like a big quarter size. Or some acupuncture point is a little tiny sesame seed.
So these points in the ankle area, they're actually a little bit bigger point. And as I said, I don't think they are going, try to do approach acupuncture point. They're going to the more nerve point, but somehow it just correlated and ended up the same point. I mean, I'm seeing over and over like, oh my gosh, they are using it. And then now I'm translating and then showing in the more Eastern medicine view, and which is very fascinating.
we are discovering through all this research and understanding in the Western medicine. But Eastern medicine, use it thousands of years without knowing it. Why? We just using it. And I think that's also kind of fun fact because sometimes we have to know why it works. But sometimes we just want to fix it. So then just use it. And then later, maybe just, aha, that was it.
Kim Vopni (23:06.894)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (23:18.977)
Yep, yep.
Kim Vopni (23:23.316)
Interesting. When you, clarification I want to help people understand in myself as well. You mentioned that the urologist would be doing it from a nerve. So the tibial nerve and acupuncture is so meaning a difference between the nerve point and an acupuncture point. So what is the acupuncture point? It's, it's going, as I understand it, it's, it's meridians in the body or energy sources in the body. So you're not a, a
Nam Lee (23:33.522)
Nerve point.
Kim Vopni (23:53.238)
addressing the nerve per se, but what would you be addressing in an acupuncture point?
Nam Lee (23:58.962)
I love that. If it is truly nerve, if acupuncture point, like people are asking, is acupuncture, is it stimulating nerve? No. If it is nerve, acupuncture will be extremely painful because you're poking all those nerve points. And it very similar. If you are asking your question, what is meridian, what is acupuncture point, how we find acupuncture point is where the energy flow.
Kim Vopni (24:09.463)
Yeah, yeah.
Nam Lee (24:24.496)
and its energy is visible, not really, but they look very similar with the nerve pathway. So it's similar, but sometimes it's totally off. And this point in Western medicine using it,
to stimulate that for specific challenges with the bladder problems and then also reusing it for bladder problems and then it ended up the same place. And I still have to know how people just discovered this point, how utilizing and I don't have that the story behind. But what I'm saying is they are very similar, not exactly, but I can explain that in the Eastern Medicine view how this one is working at this time. And then we didn't have
understanding because we've been using all the time kidney two kidney one and then split six very well known point for bladder problems but now I have some a little bit of a understanding so I'm very appreciate this research based approach and that also made my video very popular because I tried to translate this unknown
effective remedy we have and then we also get more explanation through this research and then someone has to connect that together and then that's what I'm trying to do here.
Kim Vopni (25:45.519)
What do you see as a response? So I guess what sort of bladder issues are people coming in with? And so when you're applying the Spleen 6 and the two kidney points and you mentioned the sacral and the points in the ear, so you're doing your whole body approach. What are some of the more common conditions that people are experiencing relief from?
Nam Lee (26:09.458)
Yeah, the less urgency and then less traveling and then all the discomfort, but definitely the urgency and then less frequency for sure.
Kim Vopni (26:19.672)
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Okay, now I wanna move to constipation. So constipation is another thing that is a very common complaint or struggle that people have in my world. it sometimes can be because of maybe a pelvic organ prolapse is exacerbating constipation. Sometimes constipation has contributed to prolapse. Sometimes constipation is part of the bladder health issues that they have. it's all.
multifaceted in there, but if somebody is struggling to have a bowel movement, maybe they're eating all the fiber, maybe they're drinking the water, but they're still struggling, how would you address, what's the whole body approach, maybe with some herbs or acupuncture that you would help somebody struggling with constipation?
Nam Lee (27:08.314)
Eastern medicine is an Yin and Yang theory. It's a temperature, cold and hot. So when people are coming into constipation, definitely we know there's too much heat in the system, especially large intestine. Beauty of this approach for constipation, large intestine meridian is a very important organ in Eastern medicine.
and we have a specific point here and we try to reduce those heat. But also liquid distribution, like a fluid distribution is not proper and we try to also moisten the stool or help the large intestine. And then motility and the mobility of the intestine is also important. So there is a multi...
so many different ways to approach for constipation. Because it's a male, female, and then there are age component, and then you already know what caused this. And then we have so many different options with the herbal medicine, acupuncture, and also self-massage, which I learned this through, not actually Eastern medicine, this is more like a Western, traditional Western medicine approach, abdominal massage, so I'm using that for.
our patients. Eastern medicine has a massage anyway and it has to be very personalized. Even simply they come in and say, I have a constipation and then we still have to identify what type of constipation in the Eastern medicine then the treatment has to be very different because sometimes opposite they're just too weak.
Kim Vopni (28:43.918)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (28:46.824)
the movement is not enough. It's just a state, just so slow. Or some people is absolutely just age related, or some people is what they eating as you said, and then our treatment will be all different.
Kim Vopni (28:53.678)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (28:59.776)
Okay, is the heat, so the too much heat element, is that something that is consistent through all different types of constipation?
Nam Lee (29:08.68)
That's probably most common constipation we see in our clinic. And then when people, because I know your audience is age around like over 50.
Kim Vopni (29:18.606)
Well, that's what I was just gonna ask. So if you're now postmenopause and I think of hot flashes, is that increasing the heat? Is that part of what's contributing to constipation?
Nam Lee (29:27.878)
Probably, I didn't really think about the, but we see a lot of our patients coming with constipation with, as you said, the estrogen drop, we call it the in. And now in the drop, in, you can tell in is more liquid.
and the yang is more like a sun. So just simple common sense. so when they age after 50 with a menopause, and then they will dry up and the whole body system along with their stool. So we use a lot of points to not only reduce the heat, we actually increase the moist point for patient with this menopause related constipation.
Kim Vopni (30:10.894)
What are the points that would increase the moist?
Nam Lee (30:13.606)
Now we're going back to your foot again. We just visited a splint six, which is in your leg, four fingers up, but your medial ankle bone right under one finger down, there is what we call the kidney six point. And this point is an amazing point for female. Actually, we can use it for male too, but this is a very good point for constipation.
Kim Vopni (30:16.557)
Okay.
Nam Lee (30:43.989)
And beauty is just right there. So just like you have an ankle bone and then you just cross your leg and then one finger down from your ankle bone and then there's a little bit of a hole. Echipunture point, when you look at carefully, there's a little bit of a ditch. A lot of a place when you sense it, oh, there's a little bit of a ditch. They usually end it up at the puncture point. And then that kidney six point is the best point for the
Kim Vopni (31:07.63)
Mmm.
Nam Lee (31:13.44)
constipation for female with a menopause related.
Kim Vopni (31:17.422)
Okay, interesting. And I also think, you know, from when I think of the word moist, I think of, you know, dry eyes, dry mouth, dry vaginas. There's a lot of things that dry, that we are drying out more as we are aging. So are there other, so you mentioned that point can help with constipation. Are there other moist points, I guess? And would it, could it potentially help with vaginal dryness as well?
Nam Lee (31:33.364)
Mm.
Nam Lee (31:46.81)
Still we have to reduce a little bit of what we call the fake heat. So this is not a true heat. Like when you exercise, you have energy and then you just feel hot. This is true energy. But this people's, we call the inefficiency heat is a little bit of a fake heat by other yang component is a change. it's like body is all about the balance and that point is a great point. Even split six point, cause it's a balancing hormone point will improve estrogen.
Kim Vopni (31:52.511)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (32:14.712)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (32:16.694)
So that point is a lovely point and your hands and then this point this is a large intestine meridian. So other than just point itself like I have this like a ring I massage it but you can use your finger to just scrub and then this point is help body to create more mucus.
Kim Vopni (32:33.518)
It's like a little like, it's like a metal sort of coiled ring. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (32:44.492)
Hmm.
Nam Lee (32:45.052)
So this point, especially we call the large intestine two point, this point in this here, we use a lot for dry mouth.
Kim Vopni (32:53.134)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (32:57.436)
And this is a research-paced point. When patients are going through the chemo or radiation, especially lung cancer and throat cancer, they just burn out all their salivary gland. And then they ended up very dry mouth. And then we called it xerostomia. When doctor, like my oncologist doctor, is reporting patient, they said, OK, they have some dry mouth and an acupuncture. So this is a very heavily used point. And we need it here.
But you can just massage yourself. So this is a research proven body's fluid production point.
Kim Vopni (33:35.663)
So interesting. Okay, so we've talked about bladder, we've got pooping in there. If for the people that may still have a menstrual cycle, we talked a little bit about endometriosis, but people who may still be menstruating and we think of some people, especially in perimenopause periods are getting very heavy. Sometimes there's clots, they can become very painful. Their abdomen may become.
quite hard and bloated. There's another condition, adenomyosis or adenomyosis. What could somebody do who's struggling with heavy periods and painful periods?
Nam Lee (34:16.935)
There is a on your leg. So this one is called the splint 10 point, sea of blood. How beautiful name is that? So it manages all the blood in your body. And this is also another research-based point.
Kim Vopni (34:26.926)
sea of blood. Yeah.
Nam Lee (34:37.652)
And then people, this is for people, young people, PMS. And when you have a period, this point is on your kneecap, inside. Everything is more towards the in, which is the medial side than outer side. And then your kneecap, the top of your kneecap, three fingers up directly. And then that point, when you touch it, it's a little bit tender.
And then that's a sea of blood, spleen 10 point. You can press 10 second and you can off for five second and you can do on and off, on and off for maybe a minute or two. And then a really effective point for heavy bleeding or painful bleeding. So it's like a PMS point.
Kim Vopni (35:28.91)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (35:32.454)
Also, mean, the endometriosis and all those, or a painful period and PMS. I mean, that's my story, which I never know earlier age, because I was also a silent end of myself until you open up. When you open up, said, I live with this without knowing it. So I'm very, very eager to share how people can improve their health.
with a specially silent endo or PMS or fibroid, all kind of unpleasant condition all these women are going through with even silence. We're not saying this stuff. We're not saying period. We're not saying like a UTI. I think something has to be really more investigated and help this poor woman, especially young people.
Kim Vopni (36:12.642)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (36:26.424)
Yeah, there's a lot of silence. Yeah, there's a lot of silence as it pertains to women's health in general.
Nam Lee (36:32.468)
This is unbelievable. mean, I am now 53. So yeah, now I'm done with this. But I'm looking at the 16, 17 years old girl coming with this painful period, and there's no way to help these people in the Western medicine other than just birth control pill up until they want to have a family. I think this is just not right to me. I mean, somebody...
Somebody to speak up and something has to change like we are doing now the menopause and all that stuff But this younger folks is absolutely suffering at the end So, what was your question?
Kim Vopni (37:12.834)
Yeah, yeah, no, we got to the question. So we were talking about the points. You highlighted another one that could help. out of that came another question. So you said spleen six is four fingers above the ankle on the inside, so the medial side. And so that was spleen six. And then now you are up by the knee and we're now at spleen 10. those are also, neither of those are close to the spleen. So where...
from a, I guess a point, like all the different points on the body, how are they numbered? How are they, like is spleen six? What does the six mean? What does the 10 mean? And I mean, I'm making an assumption that those are influencing that organ in the body, but how is it influencing the organ in the body? And how would that organ help with the menstrual cycle pain on the inside of the kneecap?
Nam Lee (37:55.092)
you
Kim Vopni (38:11.534)
like treating it on the inside of the decaf.
Nam Lee (38:11.816)
I this is we are going deeper with the Eastern medicine, right? I love that. But yes, it's not where the splen is. And then as I said, this is like sort of a remote control theory.
Kim Vopni (38:15.958)
I like going deep.
Nam Lee (38:28.272)
And your body has to influence through whole system and whole body other than just where the organ is a sit. And then body is all connected and then we can change and we can help each other which is so beautiful. So beautiful system. The number system is more like a newer system. Eastern medicine ancient time, we didn't have a number. We have just name like a sea of blood. Now we call it a spring 10 for Westerner people.
now more standardized medicine. So we made the name recently. It was not an ancient name. And when I studied with a Korean, we didn't learn, but we just learned SPLINT-10 to test for the exam in the US.
Kim Vopni (39:00.608)
Okay.
Kim Vopni (39:15.086)
Got it.
Nam Lee (39:15.794)
There is a relationship between this all the meridian and sitting on the spleen. And that is a fascinating. We still try to figure it out. In ancient time, people know all those relationship or they discover later and then they connect. So my point is, OK, we found that this four different point later, we found a connection between and then we named them together.
categorized it. So that's another question to discuss. But we think in a lot of Eastern medicine community, we think, no, there is a pathway first and we found the point along the way. And some people still disagree with it. So I don't know which one is right, but that's what we are seeing it.
There are so many points. I said large intestine here. This is not a large intestine, isn't it? But when you're looking at this point, when I stimulate, this point goes to your brain. It's not directly going to the large intestine. So all these points...
Kim Vopni (40:11.2)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. On your finger, yeah.
Nam Lee (40:29.052)
related to large intestine, when we stimulate, there's a lot of study with functional MRI. So when they put the needle here, just a stimulation light it up at your brain. And then that sensation goes down with another pathway, and then descending pathway.
Kim Vopni (40:39.566)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (40:45.912)
And that's how we know now. We know now. Because we didn't have a functional MRI like 3,000 years ago. And somehow, ancient person just figured out. And then right now, we're using it, what we believe in it, and then it works. Does that answer your question?
Kim Vopni (41:01.07)
It's so fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like my mind. When I talked to my friend, Dr. Ren and just listening to you, like, I'm so fascinated by, I'm so fascinated by Eastern medicine and the, know, just the, how this even, who came up with this, who, right? Like just that, that just, I don't know. It just blows my mind. And I think it's so fascinating. So the points are influencing the brain, which then go and influence the part of the body. Okay. Yeah.
Nam Lee (41:27.476)
Exactly. That is a beauty of a traditional Chinese medicine. When we do sports medicine, it's slightly different. When you just go, okay, there's a muscle having some trouble and then let's relax those muscle and then we put the needle there. That's a dry needling and that's what we call the issue point and localized.
stimulation of the area or contracting or relaxing the muscles. But they always use some additional points someplace far away and then influence your brain to help the suffering area which we call the Divergent Technique. Echipuncture is all about redistributing and then redirecting the flow of blood by influencing your brain. So this is beautiful art.
Kim Vopni (42:16.664)
Yeah, that's because I was thinking I told you about my son. He was if he's faced down on the table, he his his pain point is his back and there are definitely there were needles in his back and Dr. Rand was using cupping and fire, but there were also he had points in his head and his feet and other parts on his body as well. So it was sort of a combination of the true acupuncture with the like the dry needling technique with also he was using heat you use you were talking about electrodes.
that can help. So there's all sorts of different ways that you can also, I guess, you're kind of enhancing the work of the needles. Is that fair to say?
Nam Lee (42:54.964)
Exactly. And also the dry needling is acupuncture. It's not a non-acupuncture because that's what the acupuncture to. There is a multi-layer approach. So here acupuncture is on their own system. So we're using it here. So we layer one and then we use a direct point, a shoot point.
Kim Vopni (42:58.699)
Mm, mm, okay.
Kim Vopni (43:06.744)
Got it.
Kim Vopni (43:11.288)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (43:18.42)
Now some people say, but also we have another point. mean, this is the more localized and then also distal point. There's so many points that come out now as a master tongue point. That is a seasoned practitioner's approach. We just not try to catch just with one.
principle or approach and then we layer and then nothing escape from and that is more effective to me. So that's why in our clinic we employ absolutely two, three, because a Korean style, we do a lot of Japanese style and traditional Chinese style, research-based style and ear acupuncture. So we put so many different layer of treatments to most effective treatment for.
Kim Vopni (43:54.222)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (43:59.983)
Hmm.
Kim Vopni (44:04.526)
Um, I want to talk also about pelvic organ prolapse. So this is, I actually had this question the other day in my community where somebody was saying, you know, I've heard that prolapse could potentially be helped with acupuncture. And I don't, I personally don't know of any research that looks specifically at acupuncture and the, you know, alleviation of symptoms or improving prolapse. But when I think about
what you've been describing already from a releasing tension, freeing up blood flow circulation, all which could potentially help improve muscle function. That's how I envision it could help. So do you work with somebody who may have prolapse and where would some of the acupuncture points be? is there another kind of mechanism of action that I maybe haven't mentioned yet that could potentially be helping with?
organs that have shifted out of position.
Nam Lee (45:05.044)
So we have a, when we study, especially alphabology.
And we have a huge part how we can improve prolapse. It can be all different organs, uterus, or bladder, and all those other organs. we have a sort of formulations available right now for prolapse. And also another point I mentioned very first in over here, more like a back treatment, sacrum treatment, like a sacral point. Because those somehow influence the ligaments. And then we see so much improvement with the
Kim Vopni (45:32.632)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (45:40.346)
those patients with in the back treatment and then that will be my go-to starting point. also spleen in now we're talking a lot of spleen, spleen six and spleen ten for all those and then spleen controls a lot of a muscle. So something is weak and then it's just overstretched and then I get weak in the muscular structure and then we improve the spleen function. So there is a point in the spleen meridian.
Kim Vopni (45:49.784)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (46:10.37)
But as I said, one organ, one meridian, they're not solo players. In TCM, everything is a team play. So we employ different points from different meridians to support this splint function for prolapse of the organs. So yes, absolutely. If they are seasoned practitioners, there are so many points, this Korean hand acupuncture or master tongue point.
Kim Vopni (46:16.216)
Right.
Nam Lee (46:40.29)
specific point for specific organ and then if we stimulate it goes to brain it goes to where it's a suffering and then we have those organs or we have the muscle itself or surrounding area or energy or nutrient and that's how we utilizing Eastern medicine. Eastern medicine when I'm looking at acupuncture it seems very simple isn't it like okay point, splint six, kidney or
Kim Vopni (46:48.526)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (47:09.934)
you
Nam Lee (47:10.12)
or two but it's a step one.
it has to go very deep, especially internal disease. Because people are all different. What's the current stage of health and what's the future stage of health will be? And then we create the formula based on that. And it's a very, very art form, especially for chronic disease and difficult internal disease. But long story short, if they are experienced practitioners, there is a point and there is treatment available for those patients.
Kim Vopni (47:19.894)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (47:43.587)
Yeah, so fascinating. The final question I have before we wrap up is you've talked about, you know, you've said herbology and the role of herbs. How do our herbs, you mentioned everything being a team approach, so I am assuming your answer is going to be it's all working together. So the herbs, are they sort of enhancing the pathways that are being opened from the acupuncture or is it, are there other roles that the herbs are playing?
should somebody do, always do both together, herbs and acupuncture.
Nam Lee (48:17.236)
Not really. They are actually very separate, two different medicines. So, albology itself is complete approach for people's health. And acupuncture, they are totally two different treatment approaches. In Western medicine, we have surgery and we have medication because they do their own thing. So, it doesn't need to be always together. But if you can do together for some conditions, why not?
Kim Vopni (48:38.296)
Right.
Kim Vopni (48:45.294)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (48:45.734)
always better for internal, I think internal disease, urban medicine is very effective. And if it's more pelvic floor or sports medicine pain, I think acupuncture is also probably a little bit better option, but we can do together. And...
Kim Vopni (48:51.138)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (49:01.07)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (49:05.448)
But when we do herbal medicine for people's health, it's a totally different principles coming into here. Okay, so this patient has a constipation. Okay, what's her age? What's her current condition? Yin and yang, or what is a factor here? So we choose herbs. Sometimes herbs can be one single herbs. You can make one formula, like ginseng, you can make one formula. Or you can combine 15 different herbs.
to support because the people's condition is very complex and then one herb is not enough or sometimes one herb is too strong. So we have to make this medicine more safe and also effective and beauty of urban medicine is you can change
Kim Vopni (49:51.694)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (49:58.643)
depends on their body condition. Because when we try to improve, when they come to first visit, they're presenting these conditions. And we use this, and their condition change. So we have to constantly modify our formula based on what is current condition, and urban medicine has that freedom. Especially eastern urban medicine. Western medicine doesn't really have that freedom much.
Kim Vopni (50:00.431)
Mm-hmm.
Nam Lee (50:23.632)
If you take this medication for blood pressure, you just keep going and then maybe you can add more and then you get more. But Eastern Medicine is such, we formulate so we can always modify very easily, depends on the condition.
Kim Vopni (50:37.026)
Yeah, yeah. So fascinating, Nam. I absolutely adore you and everything that you share online. And it's been such a pleasure to get to know you more in person when we do have the opportunities to meet. Thank you so much for sharing everything that you did here today with my audience. And please, all of you listening, you need to check out Nam on Instagram.
Now, where can people, what is your Instagram? What's your website? Where can people potentially come and work with you? And also, you've mentioned your book. Please tell us the title.
Nam Lee (51:07.7)
Thank you. So my title is Stop Calling Me In Photo. Even patients in middle of IVF.
Neither of them, if they have an embryo and they're now going to the transfer and then they sit down with me and then they said, is there any way I can get pregnant naturally? Because they still believing it and then they label themselves as infertile, they still believe they can get pregnant naturally. So that's why I put this name here for my patients, like how they don't, because it's a shout out like to the people, even you call them infertile, I'm not, so stop calling
mean photo.
And they can find me, Lee, my last name is Lee, L-E-E, and then underscore Equipuncture is my Instagram. And our website is just leeequipuncture.com. We are currently located in Orange County, California. We are team approach. It's not only solo practitioner, because we all team. Equipuncture herbs, all team. I love team. So we are team of a practitioner. A lot of problem, not only fertility, it's like maybe 60%.
Kim Vopni (52:10.922)
You
Nam Lee (52:18.422)
but also we do a lot of sports medicine and women's health absolutely the bladder issues or gut related issues and stress we helping so many patients at this time yeah hopefully I can see you guys if you are visiting Wernza County
Kim Vopni (52:32.152)
Yes, yes. Well, I come down there quite often. So you might, might just see me. I'm to come and get all hooked up with the red light and everything. Yeah. Nam, thank you so much. This was so fascinating. I really appreciate you joining us.
Nam Lee (52:37.672)
Please!
Nam Lee (52:45.033)
Thank you, Kim.
