Nancy Tang (00:00.638)
before.
Kim Vopni (00:01.71)
Nancy, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. We I've interviewed you before on the YouTube channel. This was several years ago. You took the I used to have a professional teacher trainer course, a pre postnatal fitness course that you took and we were just chatting offline. It was just just after your second baby. Is that right? Sorry, after your first baby. Yep. And since you've had two more babies and
Nancy Tang (00:10.819)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy Tang (00:24.441)
after my first baby, so yeah.
Yes.
Kim Vopni (00:31.082)
So last time I spoke to you, think it was you were either you had just had your second or maybe you were pregnant with your second. But anyway, it's been it's been a while since we've chatted and I really wanted to have an update. One love for many reasons. The main one being you. I look at you constantly and refer to you constantly as a real inspiration for not allowing pelvic floor dysfunction, particularly a prolapse diagnosis, stop you from lifting weights.
Nancy Tang (00:39.918)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (01:00.722)
And so many people with prolapse are told you can't lift anything over 10 pounds or you can't jump anymore. You can't do all these things and you are definitely lifting over 10 pounds and you're doing all the things and you've given birth to three babies. So I'm really, really thrilled that you are here and that you can share your story and that I can also allow other people to hear it because you're really an inspiration. So that's me babbling. Can you just kind of give us a quick rundown?
Nancy Tang (01:04.761)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (01:30.072)
who you are, what brought you into the fitness industry, what led you to take that course. This is even like pre-COVID, right?
Nancy Tang (01:35.289)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. First of all, thank you so much, Kim, for having me here. I'm so happy that we are reconnecting. And I have to give you a big credit for me continuing into lifting because it's thanks to the knowledge I've gained through your course, pre and postnatal course, that I'm like, okay, well, maybe my intuition is right. It doesn't have to be this way. And I can continue pursuing my dreams of
competition in lifting and whatnot. So yes, I've been a fitness coach for quite some time. I started in 2009 being a fitness instructor. And what drove me to pursue this path is it absolutely empowered me in so many ways. And I want to give this to other women too. I wanted to be that instructor that empowered me.
so much in my younger years. So I just wanted to be that, positive impact. Then I became a personal trainer in 2013, around that time. Fast forward to 2017, I got pregnant. obviously our body changes and all that. And I realized after I gave birth to my
maybe that something wasn't feeling so right after I gave birth, obviously with the body changing and everything, but I realized that I couldn't believe that we could go back to the gym right away after six weeks. My tuition was like, there must be something more for me to know because we go through so many changes in our body and
traumatic event of just birthing a baby through our vagina. It just didn't feel right. And with a lot, I know that many women can relate, I've also started to have some pelvic floor issues and these were not mentioned in my doctor's office. He just said, okay, everything is back to normal, I can go.
Nancy Tang (03:57.869)
back to the gym, but I just felt that there was something lacking there. So that's when I started to take your course. And thankfully, I learned so much in your course that I didn't know about that I wish I knew because I'm pretty sure knowing what I know now, I could have probably changed so many habits.
that could prevent me a prolapse. So yeah, so I have got diagnosed with a prolapse thereafter. After my second pregnancy, I actually start to have the prolapse symptoms, but if had I didn't know about the prolapse and what it actually is, I don't think I would have addressed it. I'll just be like, okay, well, this is something that's normal.
Kim Vopni (04:29.72)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy Tang (04:54.328)
But because I did, I wanted to see a pelvic floor physiotherapist right away. And it's true, I'm a stage three cystosyel, which is a bladder prolapse. But thankfully, I took your advice. I worked really closely with the pelvic floor physiotherapist. I did hyperpress it through you, with you, and I reversed it to stage two. So.
This along with all the great public health habits, I thought that I couldn't continue pursuing piloting, is something, it's kind of the love of my life right now, lifting heavy. I could, I just have to respect my symptoms. I have to progressive overload the weights at the gym smart, while also being
truly mindful with the way that I'm going about my public health habits basically.
Kim Vopni (05:59.259)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's such a cool story. I prolapse, I have lived experience with prolapse as well. Obviously, many people in my community have that lived experience. And in my in my 20 plus years of working in the pelvic health space, prolapse is really the one that sort of halts people in their tracks. And it's, it's very bothersome. It's very mentally
challenging, know, it's all these things and symptoms also vary from one day to the next. And so you're constantly on this roller coaster. And when you view what you love so much with, you know, your case, you love competing and heavy lifting and but just fitness and exercise in general, all of a sudden, we're either told we can't do that, or we shouldn't do that, or we feel like we can't because we think it's going to make it worse. Or maybe we did something in our symptoms felt different. So my gosh, did I break myself even more? We go through all of these
Belief systems that aren't always accurate and it holds many people back. So So anyway, you you had the diagnosis, but you thankfully you had some information you are now feeling empowered you you weren't accepting that you couldn't do this you were applying the fitness principles that you would have learned in your basic personal training plus things that you would have learned in in my course did the hyperpresses and then you basically you went back to competing and will
I'll have a link to some photos of you. So what's the heaviest weight? Let's say a deadlift and a chest press. Those are pretty common for people. What weight do you lift in those two exercises?
Nancy Tang (07:33.186)
Yeah.
Nancy Tang (07:41.752)
So far, in my last proud lifting meet in May of last year, I was able to get to 230 pounds on the deadlift.
Kim Vopni (07:53.294)
That's a little more than don't lift anything over 10 pounds.
Nancy Tang (07:55.604)
Yeah, huge! My doctor was like, please don't do this. I'm like, okay, I'll go see my field therapist and she'll tell me what I can do. So 238 pounds on the deadlift, 215 on the bench. For the squat, 170 pounds on the squat, which for me was a big deal.
Kim Vopni (08:00.652)
Yeah.
Yep.
Nancy Tang (08:20.247)
And squat is the one that I've always had a little bit more trouble with because that's where I feel the more symptoms. But I had to really slow down my own expectation and to really respect my body's capability. So it was a slow progress from a couple of years of really being intentional with my training. I couldn't squat over 135 pounds just two years ago.
Kim Vopni (08:34.958)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy Tang (08:48.511)
before I got pregnant with my third child, two years and a half ago. So I was very stoked and I'm excited to know, yeah, that I can even go for more as long as I'm consistent with my public health.
Kim Vopni (08:59.864)
That's huge.
Kim Vopni (09:10.296)
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Congratulations. So when you say you had to respect your symptoms, you had to be consistent, what does your, let's say in a week, what does your training look like? Is your pelvic floor work separate or do you incorporate it into your lifting? Give us an idea of what that looks like for you.
Nancy Tang (09:13.31)
Thank you.
Nancy Tang (09:38.987)
Yes, so I often do the core breath. That's just an automatic thing for me right now. So I do this pretty often. I would say right before going to bed after I... It's become a habit. Right after I put my daughter to bed, I'll be sleeping beside her and I'll just bring my knees up and I'll just take 10 deep breaths of core breath. So that has become something that's regular.
The core breath for people that are just learning about it, it's like the key goal, but I would say it's more whole in the sense that you're not just tightening the muscles, you're also releasing the muscle. For some people with private organ prolapse, we tend to need more of the release. So core breath has been such a important little exercise that's really helping me to be where I'm at right
at it right now. Hyperpressive is one that I'm not as consistent, but when I do, it's just incredible. I've learned hyperpressive through you first, and then I went to take a course for that. And then I just started a course, actually the Power Over Prolapse course by Dr. Sam. Let me, I will give you the name.
Kim Vopni (11:05.742)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy Tang (11:06.903)
So that's just another course that I'm added on top of what I'm doing, because I just want to learn more from different people in the field, experts in the field. So now I do core exercises, three to four different core exercises. I'll be progressive overload weekly. I'm on her week two of the program right now.
That's on top of my current lifting program.
Kim Vopni (11:40.832)
Okay. Do you incorporate the core breath into your heavy lifts as well?
Nancy Tang (11:46.528)
Yes, actually. I had to find a way for me to properly brace. I cannot brace in paradise. Yes, yes. I had to learn how to brace but also apply the lifting portion of the core breath as well for me to be able to continue lifting without symptoms after the lift. It took several tries.
Kim Vopni (11:52.652)
Yeah, because it's different. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (12:00.493)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (12:12.097)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine because that's that's an important distinguishing factor. So you do you compete in powerlifting for those that aren't familiar with what powerlifting is. Can you define it and tell us what is the typical bracing or lifting strategy in powerlifting?
Nancy Tang (12:30.839)
Yes, of course. So powerlifting is basically lifting as heavy as you can in the three main lifts. So squat, bench, and deadlift. And the typical bracing is basically we expand the waist at 160 degrees and then we kind of hold the breath and we bear down. But from what we've learned is that for someone that has pelvic organ prolapse, a weak pelvic floor.
bearing down has to be avoided. That's my case. And again, there's so many nuances right there, right? It's like for so many people that some athletes that are able to go back to training, postpartum, at week three or week four, but some people can't. So we have to relook at the individual. How are they breathing? How are their pelvic floor health habits away from the get-go?
But for me, cannot brace hold my breath and bear down. I can hold my breath, release a little bit, and then lift the... Exactly.
Kim Vopni (13:41.944)
Like activate your pelvic floor. Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of like, and I know that a lot of times you see some heavier lifters will wear the belt and the weightlifting belt. And it's sort of like you're breathing into expand 360 degrees, as you mentioned into the belt. And then in your case, instead of
Nancy Tang (13:51.777)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (14:02.781)
staying in that and almost as you say, there's a bear down, you're then allowing a little bit of air out, activating the pelvic floor as if you were doing the core breath just a little bit. And that helps you better manage the pressure. Yeah, that's cool. So far. Yeah.
Nancy Tang (14:12.082)
Mm-hmm. Yes. So far, yeah. And I'm still working with different public health and physical therapists that are specializing with athletes to see what's the best way for me to keep on progressing. So I'll keep you posted if there's any other ways.
Kim Vopni (14:25.805)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (14:31.767)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you ever thought about or tried a pessary or is that something that you just didn't feel was gonna be helpful for you?
Nancy Tang (14:41.622)
I definitely did inquire. Unfortunately, my doctor retired, so I had to find a new one. And it's not as easy to find a doctor, a doctor to follow through. But I did find someone, so I just had to get to it. But I do want to try at-past-ery. So far, I don't have one, so I didn't get to use it. I'm able to manage without one.
Kim Vopni (14:47.981)
Mm.
Kim Vopni (14:59.671)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (15:05.217)
You've managed without one.
Yeah, yeah.
Nancy Tang (15:09.226)
But I'm definitely curious on how much it could support me in my training with that tool.
Kim Vopni (15:13.953)
Yep. Yep. Yep. You brought up another interesting point too now because you are also, training your own body, but you're also training other bodies. So other women who potentially they maybe not even have been pregnant. have to make a distinction in fact that you don't have to have been pregnant to have pelvic floor dysfunction, but you're, you're managing the training programs for other women as well. And you mentioned the need for nuance and individuality and it's about the person in front of you and we can.
Nancy Tang (15:29.341)
Hmm.
Kim Vopni (15:43.192)
You know, a big point, if you remember the slide in our course is like, there's no recipe, there's no protocol. We're kind of giving you some principles here and it's, it's about you then using your own kind of clinical reasoning or decision making in that moment with that person to, to, to nuance things so that it's taking into account their symptoms, their life, their phase of like their daily life, but also the phase of life that they're in. you have three kids.
And there's, I think the emphasis is two and a three? How old are they?
Nancy Tang (16:17.494)
So the oldest one is seven, five, and then two and a half.
Kim Vopni (16:22.445)
Two and a half, yeah. And so those are still things that you need to lift as well. I don't mean to say things, but I'm just pointing that so many women are told not to lift and yet we have children and groceries and laundry baskets that are often heavier than this weight limit that we have been given. during your week, you have your kids, you have your daily life. How often are you training?
Nancy Tang (16:26.558)
Yeah.
Nancy Tang (16:37.79)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (16:49.991)
and under a heavier load than, I know all of your loads I'm sure are more than 10 pounds, but I just mean how often are you loading your body throughout the week?
Nancy Tang (16:59.702)
Strength training, I have four to five strength training a week. And then groceries, once a week, sometimes two. Laundry, I'm very lucky, my husband takes care of laundry. So to have that part to take care of. But otherwise, I'm pretty active throughout the day actually. So.
Kim Vopni (17:15.509)
Nice.
Nancy Tang (17:26.454)
I pick up the kids, I dance with them, and each of them are at least 20 pounds. Yeah, we wrestle sometimes. Like I said, I dance with them. yeah, I can't really say a number. I'm constantly active every day.
Kim Vopni (17:42.327)
You're very active, yeah.
Kim Vopni (17:48.011)
Yeah. Do you ever notice, do you still have ups and downs in terms of days that you might feel more symptomatic or are you pretty steady now?
Nancy Tang (17:55.575)
Absolutely. When I'm about to get my period and when I'm during in my period, that's when I would feel more of the pelvic organ prolapse symptoms. During that time, I'm very mindful with how I'm breathing and how I am how much weight I'm lifting. I'm not going to push for the maximal load that I can. And I'm
a lot more mindful. I'm pretty mindful with my habits actually since taking a course. So for example, not peeing if you just in case or not pushing where you're going for number two. I have pretty good habits, but during that time, no matter what, I think it's just the nature of where I'm at with my public health right now and where my prolapse is at for the moment.
Kim Vopni (18:40.887)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy Tang (18:55.722)
But otherwise, I'm pretty much asymptomatic.
Kim Vopni (18:59.479)
Yeah, that's amazing. And that's a pretty common experience. The hormonal shifts, so the low estrogen right before and kind of in the early parts of our period and the weight of the uterus, like there's lots of things that contribute to many people will say they're more symptomatic. And you've just said you adjust your training a little bit based on that as well. Not saying you have to, but especially if you're symptomatic, just giving yourself a little bit of grace. Yeah, that makes sense.
I don't know, maybe your teacher or your mentor is Michelle McDonald, Wonder Woman official. How did you get connected with her?
Nancy Tang (19:34.558)
Yes.
Um, she before she became a mentor, she was my coach. Actually, she was, um, I used to do fitness competition and in 2016 I hired her because I just love, um, not just her presence, but the athletes with whom she was working with. was something with that girl. I'm like, I don't know what they're great sportsmanship, classy, just so friendly.
and they all look healthy as well. So I connected through her in 2015. I asked her to onboard me as an athlete and she did. And yeah, so she helped me to bring a complete different physique and I won my division in the elite that year. So it was incredible. And thanks to her.
Kim Vopni (20:34.241)
That's amazing.
Nancy Tang (20:35.701)
I've learned so much about just fitness in general and the science-backed, evidence-based approach to fitness and health. So I'm very, grateful for that.
Kim Vopni (20:49.377)
Yeah, for those of you listening who aren't familiar, you might have seen or heard of an account of a woman named Joan McDonald. Train with Joan is her handle. Joan is Michelle's mother and Michelle was really the catalyst to have this transformation that her mom went through. I have always, I have, I post photos of
of joan often in my community because there are so many women especially in that age category who think that they can't get better they can't lift they can't do all these things and she is. Like yourself just a different age category of what is possible and we you know we can do anything when we have the belief and when we are consistent and and recently michelle and joan were on doctor gabrielle lines podcast and.
Nancy Tang (21:34.899)
Yes.
Nancy Tang (21:41.641)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (21:44.718)
I listened to those podcasts quite often. I was more intrigued because I wanted to listen to Michelle. And anyway, the topic of pelvic floor came and I was so excited and it was just sort of like that's all she just said. The term pelvic floor didn't really go into it in more detail. So I reached out and I just said, you know, I'm so thankful that the word was even mentioned that that that you highlighted that. However, we we need more explanation. And out of that, Michelle actually asked me to be on her podcast, which has recently aired. And
Nancy Tang (22:03.743)
Mm-mm.
Kim Vopni (22:14.487)
her and her mom Joan are going to come on my podcast, which I'm super excited about. you were, if I think back, I remember you telling me about Michelle way back in the day. And, and now it's something that she had from her phase of life and from her mom, she's recognizing that, this is a topic we, really need to incorporate into this fitness world because we're, we're, we're training muscles.
Nancy Tang (22:40.403)
Yes.
Kim Vopni (22:40.801)
The pelvic floor is a group of muscles, right? So they're experiencing that load too, and we can progressively overload it.
Nancy Tang (22:45.927)
Yeah, absolutely. I'm very grateful that she is basically just including all aspects of what makes the woman's body and health, you know, holistic, but also we need, we absolutely need to talk about this topic because so many of our clients are experiencing these issues.
I know that for myself personally, I have one client that had a low back pain. She just couldn't figure it out. Her doctor couldn't figure it out. No one could figure it out. And then I'm like, hey, wait a second. Have you ever went to see a polyphoresis of the wrist? No. Why? What is that? What does that have anything to do with low back pain? How about you just go have it. And I started to ask questions. got curious.
Never went to see one, never got any diagnosis for anything, but she trusted me and the program because, you know, we're all about empowering women, science-backed, evidence-based approach. So she went to see the private group, the psychotherapist, and she has actually a hyper, very hypertonic, pelvic floor, and in two sessions, no more pain, no more pain.
She was able to progress overload. She was able to hit her performance goals. So, and then that's when we're like, Hey, we need to talk about this because it's the missing link for a lot of people, right? Or some clients that don't progressive overload in their hip thrust because they're leaking when they're going for that weight, but they want to grow their glutes. But right. it's like, it's, it's such an important topic.
Kim Vopni (24:26.573)
thousand percent.
Kim Vopni (24:39.756)
Yep.
Kim Vopni (24:44.001)
Well, and it's important to because it's another great point that's highlighting sort of the intention I had. Well, initially it was Sam and Julie and I who created that initial course. And now the course continues to live on in my business. But there was such a disconnect between the physiotherapy world, the pelvic health physiotherapy world in particular, and fitness. And nobody was talking about those in fitness. still is not, it should be covered in regular basic personal training, but it's not yet.
But we also, wanted to give fitness professionals language that allowed this conversation because let me ask you this, how many of your clients are women?
Nancy Tang (25:27.457)
100%. We only call to our main. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (25:30.83)
Okay, so that's a little bit biased, but maybe even before when you're a personal trainer and you weren't associated with with Michelle and her group, the majority of women, sorry, the majority of personal training clients are women. And whether you are a male or a female trainer, if you are training women, you need to know more about female anatomy, the different life stages, and you need the language to be able to have those conversations.
Nancy Tang (25:45.215)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (26:00.991)
And you mentioned, you know, this woman, trusted you. You had developed a rapport and she, you, this one thing came up and she questioned how the heck does that make sense? But you explained, you encouraged, and you had that conversation, which is, has been life-changing for her. And who do you think now she's gonna stick with for the rest of her training? You, because you helped her get there. So I think that's really cool.
Nancy Tang (26:03.317)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy Tang (26:23.058)
Yeah. Yeah. And looking back and I keep thinking how many of the women I could have helped before with this knowledge I have now back in the days where I didn't know. just for myself, right, like I said, if ever I knew better, I would have probably not strained so much, which could have contributed to my current prolapse. It's like so many things I could have done better if I had the knowledge.
Kim Vopni (26:32.831)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (26:46.455)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (26:49.911)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy Tang (26:52.98)
so yeah, I'm pretty hopeful that we can see the rise of public health topic in certifications, just regular, personal trainer certification, because it is such, it's a definitely a missing link in there.
Kim Vopni (27:11.179)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's kind of like one of the main things that it's a big part of my mission that in my lifetime, I really truly sincerely hope that the the main certifying bodies of personal trainers and fitness instructors will have a pelvic health component in there and not just women like men have a pelvic floor to you, right, but we anybody working with women, especially but anybody working with humans.
who have a pelvic floor need to understand this. so you're just your prime example of your living proof with your you benefit from your own body perspective. And you're also helping the other bodies that you work with as well. One thing I just want to come back to on the days when you may be more symptomatic. You mentioned that you change maybe the way that you're the lifting that you're doing that day, but mentally the mental side of things are there are there
tips you have for people who have those low days in terms of how they can manage and deal and cope with the kind of the uncertainty and the symptomatic days they kind of they bring you down a little like literally and figuratively right.
Nancy Tang (28:20.858)
So for me, guess I'm naturally very optimistic. I don't know if that could help, but I know that this is just a normal thing that happened during my cycle. So as long as I am present to my symptoms and I'm taking care of myself, I'll be fine. And just being continuously really consistent with my habits is important, but also stress.
because we understand that the breath has such an impact on the pelvic floor. If I worry about it, it's not gonna help me more with my symptoms. So just chill. Know that it will, the symptoms will subside as the cycle ends and it is true. always gets better. But it's just another reminder to me personally to keep this habit consistent.
Kim Vopni (28:57.985)
Right.
Kim Vopni (29:02.305)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy Tang (29:20.67)
because it's like any other muscle, don't train it, you lose it. So I have this monthly reminder to just be consistent with my habits and to continue to see my public health professional therapist as a yearly checkup. That's important. And it's just an ongoing practice.
Kim Vopni (29:21.153)
Yes.
Kim Vopni (29:25.867)
Yep. Yep.
Kim Vopni (29:47.544)
Yeah, that's the biggest takeaway from what you're sharing to me is, and the biggest message I share with people is the consistency. Showing up, even if it's the 10 core breaths you do lying by your baby at night, or taking a break and just connecting in with yourself and taking a moment to recognize that in that moment, I've had those days too, I still do, you're...
Nancy Tang (29:53.31)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (30:14.953)
angry sometimes, resentful sometimes, but then you just have to say, okay, this is a day. There's many things that have contributed. I haven't done anything wrong. This is not my fault. Tomorrow is another day. I'll just stay consistent and all these little consistent showing up the consistent thoughts, all the practices are what ultimately help us move forward. So I think that's super powerful from a message perspective. What would you like as we wrap up? First of all, where can people
Nancy Tang (30:23.241)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (30:44.393)
find out more about you work with you learn more about Wonder Woman official. So what I want I want people to know where to be able to find that. And then also what would you say your parting words are for people who maybe have been told or who think that they can't participate in fitness or lifting because they have specifically prolapse but any any sort of pellet dysfunction.
Nancy Tang (31:03.977)
Yeah.
Yes, so you can find me at the Mo- at Nance- sorry, at 11 with Nancy. I was gonna say at the Wonder Woman. But that's where you can apply to work with me. There's also tons of- the whole team is amazing. Michelle Willie brought in a team of powerful women and we are all averse with the same knowledge and public floor as well.
But each coach is unique, amazing, so at the Wonder Woman official, that's the IG. And my personal IG is out at Elevate with Nancy. And my parting words would be the body, the female body is so powerful and so adaptable that
you can absolutely achieve and continue achieving your goals of fitness as long as you get the right resources. And they're all, it's all around us. And we're so lucky to be, to have such accessible resources nowadays. So please, I was scared as well, but thankfully I found a new course.
Kim Vopni (32:24.065)
Yeah, yeah.
Nancy Tang (32:31.572)
I found and through you I met other people that was part of my team so I built myself a team to help me continue achieving goals that are important to me.
Kim Vopni (32:46.477)
Hallelujah, that's amazing. Well, as always, you are an incredible inspiration. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I know everyone's gonna go over and check you out in your photos. It's just, you are remarkable and I'm really proud of you and thank you for sharing your wisdom and thanks for taking the course in the first place way back in the day and also helping spread the word of pelvic health in the fitness industry. I really appreciate it.
Nancy Tang (32:58.342)
it
Nancy Tang (33:10.153)
Thank you so much and thank you so much for being such a great mentor and I can 100 % say that it is thanks to you that I've continued to pursue what I love. So thank you so much.
Kim Vopni (33:26.754)
Yeah, you're welcome, you're welcome.
