Kim (00:01.297)
Hi Jen, thank you so much for joining me today.
Jenn (00:04.686)
Hello, thank you for having me.
Kim (00:06.225)
Mm hmm. I am I'm really excited and interested about this conversation. You reached out to me as a pleasure and power coach, and I've heard of pleasure coach, but haven't necessarily heard the two together with power. And I was really intrigued by your background. So can we start with what brought you to this line of work? What do you do and what does it mean to be a pleasure and power coach?
Jenn (00:30.702)
Yeah, I've actually leaned in recently even deeper into the pleasure and also rolled orgasm coaching into that. And I sort of got into it, my own journey, I was living the life I was supposed to be, the nice girl life. I was an elementary school teacher, I was married, I was about to try to start for a baby, living really close to my parents.
And I realized that I was absolutely miserable and some things happened in the marriage. And so I got divorced, which really for me sparked, that was a major transformation. And, you know, as soon as the divorce was finalized and I started dating and having sex, I was like, wow, hold on. Like there's a whole new world out here and there are different ways to be in relationship and have sex.
have pleasure and that just sort of exploded my world and I made some massive changes to my life and career. And from that, that marriage ending for me was one of the most powerful moments of my life because I instigated divorce, I took control. There were a lot of moments in that divorce that could have been very disempowering, but I said, no, I'm gonna do this.
This is what I want from this and I deserve this. So, you know, and then I started sexually experimenting. So that's how the power sort of weaved in for me. And I slowly came to deciding that I wanted to really be in a sexuality career and really support women because I think, I think when we women especially truly are living in our pleasure and are in touch with it and embrace it.
That is the ultimate power, I think, for a lot of women, for people in general, but especially for women.
Kim (02:35.185)
So what does that mean when you say living in their pleasure? How would you describe that?
Jenn (02:41.358)
I think it's connected to their pleasure and not feeling guilty about it. I think there's so much societal, I think it's nonsense that we're taught about how women experience pleasure, how they should experience pleasure. And I think women's sexuality is really, hasn't been embraced in our society. If you think that the sexual revolution really happened, depending how old you and I are and all listeners, I mean, that's my mom's generation.
That's one generation ago in the 60s where this all started to shift. And instead of allowing women to create their own sort of sexual arena where female sexuality could flow naturally, we stepped into the male arena. So women's sexuality was developed or not developed, but sort of is still viewed through that male lens. It's often viewed as male sexuality light. So when women can sort of
shuck off all of that conditioning and really be in touch with having sex how she wants to have sex, having the orgasms that she desires to have, however that looks, however her body reacts, and really embracing that and not apologizing for it, that is living in pleasure. And I think that that truly leads to personal empowerment as well.
Kim (04:00.881)
It was interesting recently, I was watching a show on, I think it was Netflix or Apple or something, it was called Flaked and it was about this, like, alcoholic guy lives in Venice, California and sort of his life and in one scene he sees this beautiful woman, she's a surfer and you can see that he's got this attraction. Anyway, next scene is they're in bed together and the woman is...
leading the way and she's directing what like the pleasure that she wants and when she has an orgasm she basically gets off of and and says thank you very much and starts putting her clothes on and it was the first time that you've seen the the man in a in a heterosexual scene a man lying there feeling like maybe he's been used or feeling like hey what about me what about my pleasure because as you say typically it's
we, what we have grown up seeing in movies or TV or, or wherever it's that it's more about everything is finished. The sexual act is finished once the male has the orgasm and it never, never do we see a woman really having an orgasm. And if we do, it's typically the, we think of it as porn.
Jenn (05:12.27)
Yeah.
Kim (05:20.145)
as the exaggerated moaning, yelling, screaming, all that kind of stuff. So I was interested by that at first time I've seen it. I'm sure it's happened somewhere else, but.
Jenn (05:30.022)
Yeah, and I think there very much is an inherent privilege that we don't really think about in having the right to come last. Now, don't get me wrong, like, women, when men decide that their partner comes first, I'm all for it, like, that's lovely and wonderful. But there is something inherently privileged about being the one who decides sex is over because you've gotten yours.
And I think that's what's so powerful about what you just described is that women's going, I've got my, like, we're done now. And it is a massive, massive shift in how we view experiences of pleasure, especially in heterosexual relationships and sexuality. So, yeah.
Kim (06:11.345)
Interesting. So you say there, I don't remember the exact wording on your site, but essentially that women have an innate pleasure and power within them. And that's part of what you do is you help them find that. So what are some of the reasons why maybe some, maybe they have never found their pleasure or power or maybe they had, but they've lost it along the way. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Jenn (06:37.39)
Yeah, we all have our own unique sexual ecology and within that ecology is a pleasure story. And that going back, goes a little bit back to what I've mentioned before, that we have so many teachings about how women can be and should be. And like I mentioned before, it's only our mother's generation that sort of benefited, started to benefit from this sexual revolution. So there's a lot of,
you know, generational trauma about not being able to, you know, have freedom to express sexually, having freedom to experience pleasure. And when we get these messages over and over and over again, we take it on and I think we don't even realize that that's what we've done. And we start getting these messages in childhood, like little tiny little girls, right. And one of my clients, for an example, she, uh,
grew up in a fairly religious family and her parents expected her to be very high achieving. There is always this like, you need to be good enough that like if you got 95 % on an exam, where is the extra 5 %? So when we get messages like that constantly, when we go into sexuality, there's this underlying fear of...
like shame around sexual expression. And if I have this pleasure, I'm not gonna be good enough. I'm not gonna be worthy of love. I'm gonna be unsafe. And sometimes female sexuality really makes us unsafe in the world. Like, you know, there's a lot of sexual violence and depending where you are in the world, there can be a lot of social ostracism around female sexual expression. And, you know, in pockets of the world, like if you...
have a child out of wedlock, you're looking at a life of poverty. Like, there is so many layers to why women might not have been able to access that. And it's not her fault. It's never her fault. But I think it becomes your responsibility. Like, you have to reclaim that. You have to make the choice to reclaim that. And I think everybody can reclaim it. Everybody can reconnect with it.
Jenn (08:57.806)
But you have to acknowledge that it's there and you have to want to reclaim it.
Kim (09:02.641)
And I think that the word pleasure can mean a lot of things and in your line of work and I am making an assumption and please correct me if I am wrong, but in your you're talking mainly from a sexual perspective, but when there are other ways to experience pleasure and one of the again reading through your website and what you were doing part of your story you were talking about.
Jenn (09:19.148)
Yes.
Kim (09:31.345)
your journey and learning about pleasure and finding your power. And one of the statements was a retreat that you had gone or a coaching practice you went to and you listed holistic and somatic pleasure practices. And I would love to know more about what that means. What is a somatic pleasure practice? What's a holistic pleasure practice? And is it always associated with something sexual or sensual?
Jenn (10:00.622)
No. So when we talk about holistic practices, we recognize that there are so many different elements that impact how we interact with our pleasure. So holistically, we might go in and we might look at wounding from childhood that makes us believe that we're not worthy of pleasure. We may look at a story from a past relationship that we now think, oh, I shouldn't orgasm like this because my last partner hated it.
Like, so the holistic piece is going in and treating the whole person and different elements of who we are and how that interacts and might limit our access to pleasure. And the somatic piece is really about getting into the body and kind of getting out of the mind. Our mind a lot of times can really get in the way and really psych us out of pleasure a lot. So we do a lot of work on...
getting into the body, tuning into what's actually happening. Are we numb in our genitals? Are we numb in our breasts? Are we numb to any sensations? Are we holding emotions in our body that might be blocking us? So really turning on that body piece is the somatic.
Kim (11:14.993)
And one of my questions to you is about the mind. So, you know, like there's many people who think of their grocery list or they're distracted, they're not present in the moment. And then there's the other piece of the body confidence or lack thereof, or the, as you say, thinking, well, my last partner didn't like this. So what do I do now? And feeling restrained and there's a lack of freedom there maybe to be expressive.
Jenn (11:26.83)
Yeah.
Kim (11:40.177)
So what role does the mind play and are those practices how we overcome that?
Jenn (11:46.862)
Yeah, yeah, the mind absolutely plays a role. And I think of it as almost like a highway, right? Like the, we, most of us don't receive any sort of pleasure education. We maybe start masturbating in our teens, maybe younger, which is also totally normal, and having sex and whatever works, like kind of the first time is typically what most people stick with.
So we don't receive any education in how to expand that. So we get into these breaths, we get into these patterns and they work well enough for most of us. And what we don't realize is that every time we use that pleasure pattern, we're basically building up this like highway in our brain of how to achieve pleasure. And so of course, we're always gonna take the highway, right? It's the fastest, convenient, easiest route. But if a block comes up,
or if something happens and that highway stops working or we want to experience something else, we need to start rebuilding side roads, right? So the practices involve sort of getting the mind in the habit of taking a new pleasure route. So maybe we'll change up how we masturbate. Maybe we won't let ourselves orgasm. Maybe we'll use different tools or toys or hands or what have you, and really just focus on
teaching the body using the mind, they're kind of intertwined, right, obviously. But once we in the body learn to create a new pathway, the mind can then start to decide to take that new pathway. And then all of a sudden, we have this like network of highways that we can use to achieve pleasure. And that's when I think the world opens up, right? Like you can have blissful cosmic pleasure in all these different kinds of orgasms and full body orgasms. So,
That pleasure education piece, I think, is really missing and that's how we sort of build this better mental pleasure highway.
Kim (13:49.009)
Yeah, yeah, I like the way the way that you said that at the end there, the we don't receive pleasure education, we receive sex, the this is how sex and it's usually penis vagina sex, right? That's what we are typically taught. And that's what we see most often, we don't think about the pleasure.
Jenn (13:58.318)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I learned I had a clitoris from Cosmo magazine. Like, I wasn't taught that in school. Like, it's crazy. It's crazy. You know, and it's really unfortunate.
Kim (14:10.863)
Yeah.
Kim (14:16.721)
Yeah, there's in Vancouver where I live, there's a sexual education company called Salima Noon and they visit schools. And I remember my kids, we receive a notice letting parents know that this education is going to be happening and we have an opportunity to come and participate in the first so that we learn and we hear what will be taught to the kids. And then they have their own private session afterwards. And I was really...
I was very impressed and happy with the education because it was, it talked a little bit about pleasure. It was more, it was just very open conversation and it was very much not weird. There might've been a few little giggles here and there, but it was just a very comfortable, open, non -intimidating conversation. And then I remember a few of the parents who were around some,
I didn't really know necessarily, but there was sort of whispers and feeling uncomfortable and saying, I can't believe they're saying that, or I can't believe this. And I'm celebrating saying, oh my gosh, I'm so happy that they said that. And I'm so happy that they're talking about this because the kids walk away with it with this knowledge of normalcy and kind of a plan and just an understanding without it having felt icky and yucky and uncomfortable for them. So I really celebrate that. But.
I love what you just said with regards to pleasure education. I do think that's something that really isn't explored or talked about.
Jenn (15:41.998)
Yeah.
Jenn (15:48.302)
Yeah. And I think with what you just said, I think there's a really big underlying question, which is why are we scared of our teens knowing about pleasure, having comprehensive sex education? Like, why is that scary to adults?
Kim (16:06.705)
Totally agree. Totally agree. And, and.
Jenn (16:09.294)
Because we shouldn't be afraid about it.
Kim (16:12.177)
No, and I would rather my children learn where they feel safe, where they feel they can ask questions. And it doesn't have to be me because I know that there's an inherent ick when it's your parents talking to you about this, but at least guiding them to resources so they aren't flipping through the internet just on their own and ending up who the heck knows what they see on the internet. But I would rather them have learned from educated people and given the tools early on and the seed planted that...
Pleasure is good, sex is good, and sex can be healthy, and these are the ways that you stay safe, and these are the important things. We need to talk about those pieces as well. But my education was very much don't have sex, and if you do, it's birth control. And STDs, right? And that was always, it was very scary, it was very scary. Yeah, yeah.
Jenn (17:00.174)
Yep, me sue, me sue. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think the unfortunate outcome in this desert of pleasure education is a lot of people probably unintentionally to a certain extent get it from porn. If they have no context for how pleasure really is experienced in real partner sex,
they look at porn and they don't know that that's not real, that that's a performance, that that's like watching a Vin Diesel action movie, right? It's not real life. It's not real sexual life. So yeah.
Kim (17:35.857)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We say that to our kids all the time. Those are actors, very much a performance. That's not, you know, I don't want, I have two boys. I didn't, I don't ever want them to have the expectation that there's this, they are both heterosexual. And so that women would just magically be orgasming all the time and very loud and screaming and having this performative act all the time. And so I totally agree. I think porn is just.
It's just all over. It's where a lot of them are learning, unfortunately, right?
Jenn (18:11.502)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's very unfortunate. Yeah.
Kim (18:15.441)
Yeah. So you, another thing you talk about is a touchless orgasm. And as I was writing my questions to you and preparing for this, I joke saying, I think I'm, I would benefit from your coaching because I can't even fathom having a touchless orgasm. Now I've seen, I've seen it with birth. Some people talk about an orgasmic birth and I guess you could argue there's a bit of
Jenn (18:22.35)
Yes.
Jenn (18:29.806)
You
Kim (18:44.593)
there's an element of touch because it's, it's as the baby's being born, but no external clitoral stimulation, which typically is what most people think about is how you have an orgasm from a female perspective. Um, but you know, and I've seen other, I follow a few different sex practitioners and some of the courses and workshops and I've witnessed not in person, but on the videos that they share.
what I think is what you're talking about with the touchless orgasm. So what, how, how does that happen? How, and is it like, can you go to a session and just experience an orgasm right there on the spot? Or is it something that you need to work through and it could take weeks and months?
Jenn (19:19.182)
Yeah.
Jenn (19:27.694)
Yeah, it's a practice. Pleasure, I think one of the biggest key takeaways that I would want your listeners to have is the idea that pleasure is a practice. And sort of alongside that, we all have our own unique individual sexuality. And when we partner, that sexuality sort of intermingles with theirs to co -create something new and different together.
But even within that, we still have our own sexuality that's ours, that we should nurture and play with and enjoy on our own for ourselves without a partner needing to interact or wanting to know how it's going. We should really protect that very private sexuality that we all have. And so, pleasure is a practice. We can, like I was saying before, we can build new pleasure pathways in our
in our minds, we can build new pleasure pathways in our bodies. But we can't walk into a session and be like, okay, touchless orgasm. It's like, what's your pleasure practice like? What have you been doing? What, you know, and you can't go from zero to, I mean, touchless orgasm is, you know, a higher level sex skill in a lot of ways. So you can't, you can't walk in and just boom, it's going to happen. You have to work at it. You have to nurture it. And my experience with it,
I first experienced this in my sleep in my late teens, early twenties and going back to the lack of pleasure education, I had no idea. I was like, boys have what dreams, girls don't have what dreams. Like, what is this? And I talked to my friends about it and nobody experienced this. Some of them said, are you sure you weren't actually masturbating in your sleep and just came? And I'm like, no, I was not touching myself. And as I began to progress in my formal sexual education,
Pleasure was more in the conversation, obviously, and people accepted that this had happened to me, but nobody really sort of had a new, had a replicate it. Like, I still wasn't finding what I wanted to experience it again. So that was very disappointing and frustrating. But on the other hand, there was this part of me that's going, there is something really important here and it's really...
Jenn (21:56.878)
The insane comes to mind, but not insane in a negative way. Just like, wow, like my mind going back to the power of the mind that we talked about earlier, my mind created an internal world, an internal scenario for me in my sleep that I could orgasm. And I got more and more like, I want to replicate this. I want to know how to replicate this. And then I was like, got into my Christian certification. We were doing all of a sudden these pleasure practice regularly. And I was.
consistently tuning into my pleasure and working with it. And then it was at that coaching retreat we mentioned earlier. I'm on a yoga mat in a room full of 80 other women. So there was something energetic happening and we were just doing breath work and working on building this pleasure. And I was like, oh my God, I am going to orgasm in this room full of women with my hands at my sides by my yoga mat. Like...
Right? Like blew my mind. And I could hear that other women were having similar experiences. And so when I went back home, I was living in Vancouver at the time, I went back home and I thought, can I replicate this? And I realized that if I put in the work, I absolutely could lay down on my yoga mat from a state of, you normal kind of, you know, not pleasure that we have in our day to day sort of static.
moments and I could build it up to orgasm with practice and anytime I wanted. So that's that that blew my mind. And I think one of the other major things I want to say about it is that I wouldn't want any women listening to this to be thinking, oh, my God, I touch this orgasm. Here's another orgasm skill I need to be able to perform.
It's not that it's a system like if you just want to go in and learn how to get in touch with your pleasure without orgasm, you can do that. If you want to be able to build the pleasure and circulate it and build orgasm pleasure, you can do that. If you want to put in the time and effort to get to a touchless orgasm, you can do it. But it really at its core is this system to build those pleasure pathways.
Kim (24:16.209)
Got it. Yeah. And if I think about a lot of the people that I work with and who are in my community, there can be a lot of trauma and that can be from a lot of different things, but there is also the trauma of a diagnosis of pelvic floor dysfunction, of a prolapse or pelvic pain or, you know, urgent continence. So the fear of leaking and how that interferes from a sexual health perspective. And so I can...
As you're talking, I'm thinking there's there are some people who are afraid to touch themselves or have anybody else touch them because they are they are embarrassed. They're ashamed. Maybe it feels uncomfortable, but it becomes this. It's the mind piece, right? If is my partner going to see it? Are they going to feel it? Am I going to leak? Am I going to smell? Am I going to, you know, and we just get into this this hamster wheel situation. So part of me is like.
thought of it touchless is interesting for some who who may not have a comfort level with touch at least not yet and maybe that's a way to help them explore other other avenues as you talk about that highway right oh yeah.
Jenn (25:28.718)
Yeah. Yeah. And it can be, like I said, you don't need to go for this like touchless orgasm party trick. You can start very gentle and just tuning into what is happening in your body. And can I connect with it? Like that's the first step. And once we do that and everybody's capable of doing that. And then once you do that, you really can direct that and expand on that practice in any way that feels safe for you and nourishing for you and comforting for you. And.
supports you in your growth.
Kim (25:58.897)
What are some of the reasons why people can't achieve an orgasm? So, you know, like the touchless seems to me like that's your master's education. Like that's where you've done a lot of things along the way to get to that point. Usually most people from a female perspective require some sort of clitoral stimulation, some small percentage from something being inserted. So what are some of the reasons why...
why women may not be able to achieve orgasm.
Jenn (26:30.158)
Uh, barring any physical diagnoses, I think it really goes back to that mind piece. Every woman is capable of orgasm. And once we figure out what the block is, and I think those blocks are things like feeling shame about it, feeling worried that your partner is going to judge you, feeling that my own experience, I mean, I've always been able to orgasm, but I had a
I've had experiences of holding it back because I could feel something growing that sounds really woo. I've embraced my woo lately, but I had this for a long time, there was this like holding back because I felt that I couldn't contain what was going to be unleashed.
Kim (27:06.097)
I like it.
Jenn (27:21.87)
physically in the orgasm, but also like emotionally and psychically and in my soul, like it felt so big, like so beyond me. And I didn't know, it felt like it would break me apart and break me. It felt like it would break me. And I think that that's not an uncommon experience. And so there's this almost sometimes the need to like,
grow into acceptance that if you orgasm, you're not going to die. You're going to be okay. It's a normal part of being human. You can if you can create it in your body. You your soul can contain it. And I think physically, there's also a lot of a lot of women punch, like they hold all the muscles in their body tight that can help a lot of women sort of.
interact with that plier, but then it can just get to be so much. It's like a rubber band snapping instead of having an orgasm. So it can be any number of things, and there's a lot of unwinds that has to be done to figure out what someone's specific blocks are to orgasm.
Kim (28:36.177)
Mm -hmm.
And when you talk about the it's very much a practice pleasure is very much a practice. What are some of the tools or techniques that people may use? So quick like what could you provide that they could just start doing on their own today before starting to work with somebody like you?
Jenn (28:56.942)
Yeah. Yeah. At the very, um, like most basic, but effective exercise is just, you know, getting yourself set up in a comfortable environment where you're going to have privacy, comfortable position, probably laying on your back, but whatever feels good. And then really just closing your eyes, turning off the mind. It's quite meditative, like turning off the mind as much as you can. And then just putting that awareness.
onto your genitals and you don't need to be experiencing pleasure. But we want to look for sensation. Like what is there? Do I feel tingling? Do I feel throbbing? There's champagne bubbles. Like what is happening inside of my pectoris, inside of my vagina, inside the bubble? What actual sensations are there? And a lot of women will try this and say, I don't feel anything, numb. Numb isn't sensation.
and it's perfectly normal, it's perfectly acceptable. So if you are somebody that is experiencing numbness when you try this, that's totally okay. All you wanna do is imagine instead, or along with it, breathing. You wanna kind of, it's pussy breathing almost, like, of course you can't actually breathe in your pussy. Yeah, you want to visualize breathing energy and breath and life into that pussy. And that's the first step.
Kim (30:13.105)
I talk about blossoming the vulva. So yeah, I'm down with pussy breathing.
Jenn (30:24.974)
is like putting your awareness onto your genitals, onto your pussy, just noticing what's there and then starting to breathe. And that's the first step in what I teach.
Kim (30:39.345)
So where can people find you if they're intrigued by this and they want to learn more about about touchless orgasm and these somatic holistic practices? Where can they find you and learn more?
Jenn (30:43.446)
Yeah
Jenn (30:49.294)
Yeah. All of my socials and my website is under my name, Jen Wachey. So that's J -E -N -N -W -O -D -T -K -E. YouTube, Instagram, and my website. And I do have a course coming up starting in April with Touchless Orgasm and it's group coaching. So the prize is a little bit more acceptable for some people, but it will include two one -on -one sessions. So it's a great way to sort of gain entry into this world and to get some.
and yeah, I'm happy to, you know, I asked for my DMs if anybody has a question or emails, so feel free to ask me any questions that you might have after listening to this podcast, I'm happy to reply to people. And at my website as well, there is a free guide, an intro to touchless orgasm that can help people get started with these practices. Yeah.
Kim (31:44.177)
Perfect. Amazing. Thank you so much. You do very important and really unique work and I'm really glad that you reached out and I think this will be a really valuable podcast episode for my listeners. So thank you so much.
Jenn (31:57.166)
Great, thank you for hosting me.
