Kim (00:01.823)
Hello, Jessica, welcome. I'm really excited for this conversation. It's a topic that I have wanted to explore on the podcast. Well, explore just in general, but definitely on the podcast for a long time and just haven't quite found the right person. And you landed in my lap. So here we are. Thank you for joining me.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (00:18.07)
Perfect, thank you for having me, I'm excited to talk.
Kim (00:21.023)
Yeah, so let's start with your background. We're going to talk about vaginal steaming, yoni steaming, we're going to get into what that is, but I want to also hear your story of what led you to this realm of work and also the product that you created. We'll talk about that a little bit later too.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (00:39.413)
Yeah, for sure. It wasn't something I had imagined in my mind before it had happened that I would be designing a home vaginal steam seat, but it was really the result of having an awakening to this really super important part of our bodies that hit me like a ton of bricks. And I think so many women can relate to those stories of just really...
Neglecting our bodies are just being really disconnected not intentionally, but just as a result of the pace of our of our lives I am an architect by trade. I am licensed architect. So I was working in like a super fast -paced environment really on that 24 -hour cycle of go go go go go and This is really probably around 15 years ago that I started to notice how that was affecting my menstrual cycle. I was also in a pretty
emotionally jarring relationship at the time, which also really can contribute to that stress. Yeah. And I slowly noticed that I was starting to bleed bimonthly. So every, you know, 14 days or so I would have a bleed, which was like really uncomfortable and kind of an inconvenience for sure too. And also just like, you know, I started to really recognize the connection between having a lot of stress in my life and how that can affect.
how we bleed. So really understanding that the uterus, the entire pelvic area is alive and is speaking to us when we need to slow down and stop. And so I ended up seeing a doctor who kind of reiterated that same thing, offered me to go on birth control as a way of kind of masking these symptoms or really trying to get at the root cause and understand why it was happening. So I still was, you know, trying to organically on my own relieve stress and
hoping that that would stop these conditions, but instead it kind of kept creeping in on me no matter what I was doing. And I ended up going to get a sonogram and seeing that I had quite a sizable uterine polyp that had developed. So again, I really felt like it was part of this very natural process of our uterus being this vessel of holding and of contracting to release every month. And mine was really trying to do that and purge.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (02:57.685)
the compounded stress that had been building up over these years. And the polyp showed up there to kind of scream at me. So I was recommended to get a surgery to remove it. And during my time of recovery from that surgery to kind of rebalance my menstrual cycle that next year was when I was introduced to Yoni steaming. So, or vaginal steaming. Yoni is another word. It's a Sanskrit word that kind of means, you know,
all of the parts of our female anatomy, the vulva, the uterus, the cervix, the vaginal canal, all of it. So sometimes you'll hear vaginal steaming referred to as ioni steaming as well. And yeah, it really kind of took me by surprise. I was trying to incorporate more, you know, natural practices of reconnecting with my pelvis and really understanding it as its own kind of intelligence center that's always giving us information. And when I was introduced to ioni steaming as
a ritual really to sit with yourself around your menstrual cycle and really tune into this hyper intuitive space. I was like, Oh, this is really calling to me. I really want to give this a shot and learn more about it. So it was kind of through the introduction of that practice that I really transformed and really felt the power of this part of my body and could once again, like start to reorient myself and really celebrate my menstrual cycle.
as a gift since I had such a rough go of it for many years and let that go on for quite a long time. And so at that time I was introducing or I was integrating all these different modalities like acupuncture even and even just starting to use a menstrual cup and really look at my blood and understand the differences and how it works and what it's saying to us. And in setting up my first Yoni steam at home, traditionally you boil a pot of water.
set it on the floor and I would put some towels around the pot to try to protect my knees and kind of try to assume a squatting position comfortably to hover over the pot of urban -fused steam and eventually I would find myself in more of a like an elevated child's pose to find more relaxation because it's really meant to to be a practice of fully you know surrendering and relaxing this part of our body that's
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (05:23.317)
typically in these days carrying so much tension and stress. So finding a comfortable position can be quite a task and even, you know, protecting your legs from this boiling pot of water can be quite difficult. So as I was really trying to incorporate this into part of my like monthly practice, I started to get some ideas around how to make this easier. And my partner at the time was like, well, you're a designer, you could, you could do this. Let's figure this out together. So.
My now husband and I really spent the last seven years developing a product, kind of creating a more modern format for this truly ancient way of caring for our bodies, but harnessing all the modern technology of having a more steam safe temperature control system, incorporating infrared light. We really kind of went the whole nine yards with it, but I was able to use my skill set and personal experience with steaming and combined with other research to make a product to make this.
easier for women to access. There's a big barrier to entry, I think, in how laborious it can be to set up. And there's a lot of naysayers out there saying, oh, you can burn yourself. Don't do this. We're really trying to solve a lot of those problems to shake hands with more women, to make it more at the ready to find ways to really relax with this part of our bodies again. And remember that we have these really basic tools available to us at all times.
Kim (06:41.823)
Ha ha.
Kim (06:46.911)
Yeah, that's such a cool story. And I love that you, the architect piece came back and you know, it was causing stress, but then you used it as a way from part of what you learned in your healing and helping other people. So, yeah, I love that. And so I want to talk a little bit, go a little bit more into what the history of yoni steaming, vaginal steaming, I love the word yoni and I think it's, I love the way that you've just described it as well. So we,
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (06:59.764)
Yeah.
Kim (07:16.991)
explore where this, you talked about Sanskrit, but where did the practice come from? What was it intended to do? Who, what's the history behind it? I guess I want to understand more of.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (07:28.564)
That part to me is also very fascinating because it's not really tied to one tradition or one culture. There are roots of this and historical accounts that you can look up of vaginal steaming being used in traditional East Asian cultures. More specifically, I see a lot more written up in Korean traditional medicine. There's a lot of research papers in Indonesia and Malaysia. So,
in those cultures spanning all the way over to Central and South America in traditional Maya cultures. Dr. Rosita Arvigo, who's kind of risen up as a, she studied in Belize with a traditional Maya healer, but she really brought Maya abdominal massage into light here in the U .S. and other parts of North America.
And she talks about Yoni steaming over there, or bajos, as they call it, as really being as common as drinking peppermint tea. And really the foundational reasons for this are really quite ancient. I mean, steam bathing in general is documented to have existed since the ice ages, so anywhere from like 4 ,000 to 14 ,000 years ago. So really working with these elements of heat.
of water, of plants, is really part of our human tradition to find ease in the body. And again, the most well -documented uses for it were really around menstrual cycle regulation, and more specifically around postpartum recovery. Also in parts of Africa, I should mention Suriname, Ethiopia. And really, most of this was...
passed down through maternal lineages over time. So I think as modern medicine was born, or like industrialized medicine, it was sort of like stopping, I guess, this word of mouth way of passing down from mother to daughter and kind of co -opting the way that we care for ourselves in some respect. But it's really been around for generations and generations and is.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (09:46.835)
feels really familiar and is really a simple way to treat this part of ourselves. Yeah, I think the woman I learned it from is from Afro -Caribbean descent. And I think if you go to any of these regions today that are a little bit more steeped in traditional healing modalities, you can find it present. But yeah, it's not something Gwyneth Paltrow invented a few years ago.
Kim (10:10.815)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (10:11.197)
which a lot of people are familiar with her blogging about it, which is great because it's kind of coming back into more like popular culture again as a way to to feel good in our bodies.
Kim (10:23.135)
Yeah, I know when a paltrow, I think takes a lot of heat for, she gets a lot of backlash, but I credit that she is exploring options. And I think there are a lot of naysayers with regards to vaginal steaming, but at the end of the day, if there is a modality or a tool that can be helpful for somebody, then why should we be, why take that away? Let, let's get the information out there and let people make the best choice for their body. I don't feel like.
And I don't, it always, when I think about mainstream medical, now I'm very grateful for my medical doctor. I think we are grateful for the doctors who care for us for trauma, for surgeries, when we need medication. From a health perspective, I don't believe they're our best allies per se. But when we think about what is offered to us, which is typically pharmaceuticals or surgeries for different varying conditions, and sometimes they're absolutely needed, but.
so often they're not, and yet we accept those blindly. And then a natural, steeped in history tradition is, we're told that it's bad and it's dangerous and don't ever do it and it's ineffective. And I say, try that first. And if you've tried all these other things and they're not working, then we have all these other options to support us if that's where we're needed. So yeah, so I credit.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (11:52.657)
Yeah, I just... Me too. I totally agree. I think it's like there's this balance between like taking back some level of sovereignty, hopefully full sovereignty for what feels good and right in our body, what resonates. And this is really like a very basic, gentle, non -invasive way of bringing warmth and comfort and ease here. So it's a great like point of entry. If you're feeling uncomfortable, this is definitely worth giving.
Kim (11:52.799)
people like Gwyneth Paltrow for bringing it into the mainstream.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (12:20.773)
a shot because it's just, yeah, it's really a simple, really beautiful way of, yeah.
Kim (12:22.077)
Yeah.
Yeah. So let's talk about what it is. Like what is Yoni Steaming?
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (12:29.553)
So it is, yeah, just sitting or squatting or hovering the best you can over a pot of water that's steaming and it's typically infused with herbs. It doesn't need to be. And really what's happening here is that the volatile oils or organic compounds of the herbs are rising through the steam and the steam itself, meeting the vulva and...
I mean, for me personally, this is just like an involuntary reaction that your body has is of dropping, of the labia really settling and opening and allowing your entire pelvic bowl to just relax and find a lot of space. It almost feels like a heavy feeling, which I think that in and of itself is very cathartic. For me, the first time I experienced this, I was like, oh, wow, like this is what it feels like to feel completely.
like at ease and safe and open with this part of my body on my own terms in my own space, not anyone or anything else needing something from me. Um, and so that is like, I think a rarity in our current lifestyle and culture. And so that in of itself feels so awesome and relaxing and needed. Um, but then also what's happening here is bringing heat to this area or really any part of your body, you know, that's increasing circulation, bringing oxygenated blood to the area.
you might experience more engorgement down there, more sensation and just getting more feeling back to the area. But from, you know, menstrual health perspective, this really helps kind of break up any stagnation that might be happening in the uterus or even in any of the tissues. So I usually recommend, or even what in my research have found that steaming a few days before your anticipated bleed can really help relax.
release and prepare you for what your body is already going to be doing naturally, hopefully, is expelling the endometrial lining and a uterine cleanse, as it's now referred to. And then steaming again a few days after menstruation can be a really nice way to give the uterus some more of that relaxation and soothing comfort after it's done its work.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (14:50.13)
which is so subtle and we don't even really notice it's happening. But again, I think to be just more in tune and aware of this cycle of what happens through the four phases of menstruation is very helpful in how you bleed every month and how you feel in your body. If you're bleeding, it's also, you know, I've had personal experience with this too, then in trying to conceive, it can be really great for fertility. Number one, once your cycle is more regulated and balanced.
you'll be ovulating at a time that you'll be able to recognize in terms of cervical mucus. But the heat and moist steam also helps to thin mucus. And when you ovulate and are preparing to have intercourse with the intention of conceiving, it can be really great to steam right before ovulation to kind of get things moving and create that pathway for sperm.
So again, it's really about facilitating flow and movement. And if you're in a place of constriction and contraction all the time, that's not very conducive to the holding energy or receiving energy of conception. So I'd kind of like to speak about it in those terms. I've interviewed a few fertility doctors that are now recommending this even in tandem with IVF or IUI or other, you know, modern ways of conceiving, but still based on these basic
principles of being able to really relax, the uterus relax, but all the tissues, the entire like muscular skeletal system being in a state of relaxation is extremely helpful for conception. And then even as I mentioned for postpartum recovery, where it was most historically documented, can be, I mean, it's such a vulnerable state that your body's in then.
And everyone has a super different unique experience with how their birth and labor goes, but steaming, depending on when you're ready, this research paper that I love referring to that was done by the University of Zurich, where they followed groups of midwives around islands in Indonesia, were really witnessing how...
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (17:03.76)
how steaming is done with many different local plants there and how it's really part of their community care, which is really healing for new mothers. I think that's part of what we've lost in our culture. So steaming in and of itself can be a really great postpartum more for that, like emotional support. But in terms of physiological healing, there can be so much inflammation that happens from like that action of pushing the baby through. So I think.
That's a really, there's a lot of anti -inflammatory herbs that can be helpful here. And even just, you know, increasing circulation can be helpful for that. If you're dealing with any minor tearing or even no tearing at all, the fact that all the skin and tissues have been really stretched, it can really help soften, give them more elasticity to really return back to their pre -pregnancy state. Same as all the organs that have shifted around. It can be really helpful for that, for helping to dispel any...
lochia or excess matter that's still left in the uterus. Usually that's like a six to ten week process sometimes of bleeding after birth. So steaming can help facilitate more flow and help that happen more readily. And yeah, any minor tearing or scarring. Maybe you've had to have stitches. Usually you'd wait like until the stitches have dissolved, but it can really help to soften scar tissue and...
heal from any trauma down there related to postpartum. And I'm kind of in a weird situation right now in that I have an 18 month old son, but I'm also in my early 40s. So I'm kind of towing this line between like dealing with postpartum symptoms, but also like coming into perimenopausal years. So I'm finding it really nice to sort of treat this part of my body and relax and allow for more sensation and fullness and flow and grounding.
But I think women, I'm anticipating, like as I get closer to menopause, there's a lot of great herbs for cooling, for moistening, for creating more elasticity, that area. I mean, I there's a lot of discomfort that can happen through any of these, like bigger hormonal waves or transitions. And so, you know, sitting with herbs and steam can be a great way to find some grounding and balance around those times. But yeah, there's also these physical benefits too.
Kim (19:23.807)
Yeah.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (19:27.503)
working with the herbs and the steam.
Kim (19:29.055)
Yeah, well, as you're talking, I'm thinking, I used to live in Indonesia when I was younger, when I was in high school, and I didn't necessarily, I witnessed some of the practices, but not that much. I reflect back and now kind of remember seeing things, but didn't necessarily associate with what was happening at the time. When I formed my second business called Belly's Inc., we very much referred to the different cultures around the world who were embracing the practices of mother roasting or mother warming.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (19:40.815)
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (19:58.157)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (19:58.463)
it all had this central focus of creating heat and protecting the body from wind and closing the body. So wind being the cold and wrapping, herbs, massage, steam, all of it centered around the healing practices of heat. And I know personally myself, heat is always when I'm sick or when I feel sore, when I was postpartum, when I was post -op, heat was always...
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (20:08.269)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (20:28.223)
what I have found the most soothing. So heat pads or sit spas or long soaks in the baths, red light therapy, which we're gonna get to the red light of yours. But it's just, it is, and I, when I was looking at your product that you've designed and we'll go more into it in a second, but it also reminded me of the, they're like little basins that you put your face over. So yes, you can use a bowl of hot water and drape a towel over your head and put your face over.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (20:38.189)
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (20:53.263)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (20:58.271)
for steaming and opening pores and what have you. And really that's kind of what Yoni steaming is doing just to different lips, different tissues, right? So the heat and the opening and the creating the flow as you talked about. And so as you're talking, I'm thinking about, yes, reflecting on postpartum, yes, reflecting on my post -op and also now being post -menopause. So you answered my question, which is, are there herbs that we could be using for...
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (21:07.021)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Kim (21:26.079)
different phases. It's not the same herbs you use every single time. There are specific herbs you could use to impart a specific reaction or response in the body. Is that correct?
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (21:38.189)
Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's all very subtle too. I think that's part of like the naysayer perspective sometimes is feeling like, oh, you know, you're blasting heat. There's this idea that it's like, you know, really coming at you in this really aggressive way. Again, all herbs, I mean, even just drinking herbal tea, we know that the way it's metabolized in the body is very gentle and you're kind of getting what you need. You can't really be like overdosing on herbs. I just mentioned that just to say like,
All of these herbs have medicinal properties and they also have energetic properties. They have aromatherapeutic properties and that's kind of all part of the experience and the herbs that are selected for yoni semen specifically. So yeah, if you're really focusing more on ease of menstruation, of eliminating stagnation and getting more flow.
Herbs like mugwort are amazing for bringing more heat and increasing circulation to the pelvic area. It's really been known traditionally to do that. It grows wild all over where I am in the northeast of the U .S. I think you can just find it just about anywhere in North America and in Europe. I mention that more because you can find a lot of herbs that have similar actions, that are local to you. So even herbs like motherwort do a similar thing.
And it's really great to be able to work with local herbalists or Chinese medicine practitioners to really find a formula that is more specific for you and finding plants that are growing local to you and that they're going to probably be the most vibrant or most relatable in that instance. But yeah, mugwort is a great one for that.
For postpartum recovery, I really like using calendula, which is using most facial products too, I'm noticing these days, but it's really soothing on the skin, can really heal from minor irritations or scar tissue. It's a really great herb for that too. It's known as herbal sunshine in the healing tradition. So it's, you know, energetically kind of has that brightness and that quality to it. Or even ladies mantle is another great postpartum recovery herb.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (23:49.486)
as you're approaching like perimenopause time, even working with lavender that has more of a cooling effect and these more emollient, moisturizing herbs like marshmallow roots or marshmallow leaf, excuse me, or maritian mallow is another one, chamomile is more like anti -inflammatory. But yeah, I think you can get really granular about which herbs to work with and you can kind of experiment with that as well. But depending on what your...
specific life cycle phase that you're in or even specific condition that you're interested in healing or getting more in tune with or flushing out of the body, you can get really specific about which herbs to work with. And there's even different setups for steaming. It's not recommended to steam while you're pregnant, but as you approach labor, like in week 38, 39, 40, you can...
do more of a mild setup, so maybe like a 10 minute steam session. And really don't need many, any herbs at all, but using something like marshmallow that's really like gentle and soft on the tissues can help, you know, prepare the area for stretching and expanding. And even just bringing, you know, creating more, just like loosening and relaxation.
ligaments and tendons as you know very intimately are like stretched to the max at that point. So I've worked with some women that steaming in those later months of pregnancy has made them feel so much more comfortable in their pelvic bowl and just giving some relief there. So yeah, I'm mentioning those times only to say like, yeah, there's very like specific moments in womanhood where, you know, steaming can help, but it might be like a different style or setup than the regular.
Kim (25:40.831)
Uh.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (25:41.901)
menstrual cycle time.
Kim (25:45.503)
Yeah. So I want to, I think I'm going to jump ahead and talk about your product because you've, you've historically, you've talked about how it's a pot of water and there's towels laid around and we sit. Sometimes there's like a little stool that has a hole in it that you put that over top of a bowl and, and it's meant to then create a little bit of a tent. So maybe even a long fluffy skirt that was around you that, that creates this, this option for the steam to be more directed or kind of.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (26:01.999)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (26:15.325)
diffused around and you then took that ancient practice and created something more accessible, more modern. As you say, you've got different controls. You've infused red light into there, which I'm a huge fan of red light. I used it in my post -op recovery. I use it almost daily now for all sorts of other health purposes. But before we go into the how long, you know, like how long do you use it? How many times do you use it? I want to talk more about your...
product and then we can go into the practices that you recommend specific to your steam seat.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (26:51.312)
Yes, so our product is unique in that it really is trying to harness all of these technologies to make this just an easier setup. A lot of times using traditional methods, steam only lasts for so long, maybe like 10, 15 minutes, but really I personally enjoy steaming for 20 to 30 minutes. And with the Leamoon steam seat, we have
Yeah, controls on there where it's actually measuring the temperature of the steam for you in real time. So there's a little sensor inside that feeds the information back to a little LCD display. So you can input your preferred temperature and you can even, you know, adjust and fine tune that.
during your steam session if you were like, oh, I want to add a little bit more heat here or go a little lower. And it also has a limit to it. So this fear of burning ourselves, really steam, I mean, even if you're boiling a pot of water and you turn the heat off and you put your hand above the steam, it's never like.
It's not like a very fast action. Steam is rising quite slowly and it can feel really gentle and comfortable. So even if you're adding more heat to it, the intensity of like the motion of the steam kind of stays the same, but the ambient air temperature will get hotter. So you can really generate steam at like 90 degrees Fahrenheit, even a bit lower than that, lower than your internal body temperature. Um, and you can go as high as 115 degrees using our steam seat, which is the typical temperature of a steam room at a spa.
So it allows you to really have that, you know, real personability to it. And...
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (28:33.168)
There's also a manual setting or that allows you to put it into an automatic mode where it will just oscillate between the lower temperatures and higher temperatures. You can kind of like set it and forget it. But yeah, it has a cushiony seat top that's kind of more ergonomically fastened or fashioned to help you kind of settle in and get your sits bones all cushioned and supported, which has kind of been a problem too for trying to find that comfortable position using more traditional methods. And all the herbs.
and water are held in a stainless steel infusion cup that's removable so it's actually pretty portable and easy to to fill up with water and add in the herbs and then when you're done it's easy to remove and clean you can put in your dishwasher. So yeah part of the intention here was just to like make it super easy so that more and more women are like oh yeah I can do that I can definitely figure out how to do that especially postpartum women when there's like so much newness and so many new obligations for your body between you and your baby.
Yeah, we just wanted to make it as easy as possible. And as you mentioned, there's also the red light therapy. So it's a combination of red light LEDs at a 660 nanometer wavelength and the 850 nanometer infrared light. And it's been studied that in that combination, they kind of have different properties. One in...
you know, reducing inflammation and in penetrating the tissue. So kind of getting in past the layer of the skin on a cellular level to help regenerate mitochondria or like the motor piece of our cells and really invigorate and turn over, rejuvenate the whole cellular structure there. So it's really good for pain relief, reducing inflammation, as I mentioned, bringing more oxygenated blood to the surface. And kind of what I love about it in relation to steaming too, is that it doesn't add any
excess heat or to the ambient air temperature. So if you're heat sensitive, you could really keep it, you know, the steam at a lower temperature level and add the red light therapy to kind of go a bit deeper.
Kim (30:39.295)
I love that. I love it. I like, yeah, I love it. I wish I'd had this in my postpartum and I wish I'd had it in my post -op as well. But as you're talking as well too, I'm thinking of all the different populations. So we've talked about menstrual cycle regularity. We've talked about postpartum. We've talked sort of about post -op, kind of a healing, perimenopause, menopause, but there's also the pelvic pain, which could be at any phases of our lives.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (31:01.584)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (31:04.639)
When you're talking about the releasing tension, the blood flow, there's so much constriction that contributes in many cases to the pain that somebody may be experiencing and the heat, the soothing element of the heat, the use of potentially herbs, the red light, all of that I feel could also be so helpful for people dealing with various forms of pelvic pain as well.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (31:26.767)
Yeah, and I think that's so related to, you know, it's a physical thing that's happening, but it's also related to like this emotional holding or this compounding of experience that we've been like constricting and tensing up and clenching. I think I hear that spoken about way more now and there's so much talk around like somatic healing or our nervous system. So I just feel like that's.
it's kind of become this normal condition. I know you've spoken about this in your work too, of these like hypertonic, pelvis is like how everyone's really in this like kind of like stuck constricted space and that it has so many after effects like of pelvic pain, but in pain during sex and ability to even have sex or pain when you're peeing or pooping. Like so many, so much function is packed into, yeah, like this is our core, like the center of our,
Kim (32:16.991)
and ability to poop, but yeah.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (32:21.262)
body where we birth and grow babies from or maybe we never even do that but it's still like the center of safety and it's like the powerhouse of our body and it's crazy to me how little attention gets paid to it and how yeah steaming can be a really accessible way I think to start to slow and soften and kind of like break down some of that that feeling because I think it can be really overwhelming as a woman to be like okay now I have to just relax my pelvic.
Like how do I do that? Almost like meditating too. It's like how do I meditate? I have to say a mantra. I have to repeat this thing. You know like it still already feels very much focused in the mind where we're trying to like figure out a problem and what I love about this product is it kind of takes you out of your head or even if you're still in that monkey brain it's like introducing heat and herbs and that you know the real earth -based rooting grounding feeling and um
Kim (32:51.647)
Yes, just relax. Yeah.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (33:19.886)
You can't really escape that. It's there for you that you involuntarily start to really relax and soften. And I really feel like that is the medicine of our times is figuring out how to do that again and making it more of a ritual or something that you can do and come back to more regularly instead of it being a one -stop shop, like got the operation and now I'm healed kind of thing. But it's really about a practice of staying malleable, of being strong, of being...
Kim (33:22.687)
Yeah.
Kim (33:30.559)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kim (33:38.431)
Yeah.
Kim (33:43.519)
Right, yes.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (33:49.038)
having agency in this part of your body, but of also embracing this idea of being loose and relaxed there and that not being a bad quality. I think that's the other part of it too, is there's this quality around tightening and sucking in and tensing up and it's not helping us really. Yes, you can be strong there and taut and fit, but also you kind of need that opposite.
Kim (33:59.007)
Yes.
Kim (34:03.421)
Yes.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (34:12.558)
action to really balance that. Yeah, so it makes a lot of sense to me and yeah, I just love steam and herbs and I'm excited to have, you know, this offering now to help women access this wave.
Kim (34:13.087)
up on this. Yeah.
Kim (34:24.223)
So how often would people, you mentioned you like to have sort of a 20 to 30 minute practice. What is the recommendation in terms of how often you would do this? How long you would do a session? When is too much? Yeah, what are your recommendations there?
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (34:43.534)
I mean, in postpartum healing and in this research paper that I was referencing from the University of Zurich, they're steaming almost like day three after birth every day. I know this is done in Malaysian cultures too. Like they're steaming every day, especially those first 40 days. So there's no harm really in doing, this is like when you're at your most vulnerable state, I feel in this part of the body where everything's all over the place and has been shifted around and is really loose and raw.
So I start with that just to say I don't think you can really over do this, but I do think it's important to listen to how you're feeling. It should feel good and relaxing and comforting. And if, yeah, for some reason it's stinging or feels weird, maybe you have an open wound in the area, it's like, yeah, I think your body will tell you when it's enough. But I really recommend steaming.
if you're menstruating women a few days before menstruation or maybe also a few days after, maybe like three or four times a month is a good balance. Or even if you're doing it once a month as like, again, that ritual around like closing the end of your menstrual cycle. Or if you're not bleeding, maybe it's relative to the outer cycles of the seasons, of the moon, you know, of every 28 days of kind of still honoring that part of you that was in the childbearing years doing this, but may not be doing that any longer, that you can still kind of connect to that.
familiar rhythm again. So yeah, I would say like a good rhythm as an entry point would be just to do like maybe twice a month or if you really are dealing with some pelvic pain, you can do this for a few days in a row, maybe at the milder setup of 10 minutes or so and then gradually build up to 20 to 30 minutes. Our steam seat device will actually shut off after 40 minutes and it usually takes around 10 minutes or five to 10 minutes to like fully heat up. So,
you're kind of getting like that 30 minute cutoff there. But yeah, I think that's a good rhythm to start off with and get into. And then, yeah, usually most women are finding steaming like before bed or kind of in the evening hours when you're kind of in that more introspective place and the pace of the day has kind of calmed down, just really setting the tone of your whole environment to be aligned with how you want.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (37:04.365)
your self -care ceremony to feel, I think is also an important thing to mention. Usually I like to just tuck into bed right afterwards. It's really that like, like a real sedative ritual. So I love that.
Kim (37:17.343)
Yeah, and there's a lot of, I'm focused a lot on reading about sleep lately and the importance of it and all the different things we can do to optimize our sleep. And heat is one thing that a lot of people experiment with, you know, a hot bath or a sauna or hot shower or hot tub or, you know, in the hour to two prior to bed can sometimes create, like you're imparting an introduction to deeper sleep.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (37:46.155)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (37:46.495)
better sleep, falling to sleep faster, that type of thing. So again, it's that heat component, I think. So it's kind of like, it's like a sauna for your vulva, right? Where we're creating this, yeah, this heat environment. And maybe that's another way that if we're releasing that tension that can sometimes be restricting the flow and prohibiting us from being able to relax and get into that parasympathetic state, this is a way to help kind of stimulate that. Would you agree?
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (37:53.901)
Exactly. That's exactly it.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (38:09.515)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, for sure. I think it's interesting too, because a lot of women think, oh, your stimulation around the pelvic area is always, not always, but often associated with sex or sexual activity. And this doesn't, while this can certainly feed into increased libido and feeling more sexual and that you're.
Kim (38:24.639)
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (38:32.223)
Engorged in this area and maybe feeling more pleasure and it can feel really pleasurable during a steam session It does not have to be you're not doing anything wrong if you're not feeling that But kind of what I love about this too is it can be a time of really like feeling full and Pleasurable in your pelvis without it having to be sexual if that makes sense Which can also be like something and most women are like, oh, I didn't know I could do that and that can be really nice
to feel before bedtime too, just yeah, feeling at ease in your body.
Kim (39:03.007)
Yeah, that's such an important point that a lot of, a lot of when we think about self care for our yoni, for our vulva, for our vaginas, we have the exercise component, pelvic floor exercise. And people think of tightening, I've got to do more Kegels, I have to be stronger, which yes, there's an element of strength. We need some endurance, but we need that suppleness as well. And then there's also the side of we, as exactly as you say, we equate.
care or touch or investigation around our vulvas and vaginas with it has to be something to do with sex and the pleasure or the curiosity to explore doesn't have to be directly or even indirectly related to sexual practices. It can just be health, optimizing our health like whole body health, mind body health.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (39:53.963)
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (39:58.574)
Yeah, for sure. I think that's really important to give ourselves permission to reframe the way we relate to this part of our bodies. And it doesn't really have to be, I mean, sometimes women really do feel like, oh, it's for somebody else's pleasure, but it's really like, ultimately, first and foremost, like your body and your space to explore. So that's another benefit to steaming too, is that you really get to like cultivate this.
intimate relationship with this part of your body again, where you really know like, oh, this really feels good. I can feel this other type of sensation here. I'm feeling a tingling there. And that body literacy or like kind of mind -body awareness is really heightened through regularly practicing steaming and feeling into this part of ourselves again. And I think that's like really important for how we feel in our bodies and how
more in tune we can be when something comes up that's not making us feel good. Like we're just more, we have more of an immediate reaction to that. And I think that was a big part of my initial problem was like, I wasn't reading the signs and signals of my body because I was just not, I didn't know what they were, how it should feel until I needed to have a surgery and it got really that bad. So hopefully this is like a preventative way by means of just having more body literacy around.
Kim (41:20.113)
Yeah, it's such a great term, body literacy. Who should not steam? So you've talked about, you know, maybe not through your whole pregnancy, maybe wait until the later weeks, but are there any people who should not be steaming?
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (41:35.086)
No, I'll say that for sure for first leave, but I think there's some conditions in which someone shouldn't be steaming if you're pregnant or even if you're trying to conceive and think you may be pregnant not steaming after ovulation or after intercourse. If you have like a pretty serious open wound I think it could be potentially aggravating. I know some women have steam to heal.
wound so it's not like it can't be done and it's something you could experiment with again because it's a very gentle non -invasive way of treating the body but typically I would kind of wait until that was in a better place. I think if you had like really severe uterine prolapse let's say like that would not be a good thing to be steaming around until there was more healing or more
of the organs back in their proper position. Although steaming can be helpful for prolapse as can certain herbs, but I think if you're like in an extreme state, it can be really difficult to deal with. If you have any genital piercings, steam can be bad in that it will or you could remove them. But if you still had them in, it can heat up metal and cause burning. No steaming with essential oils. Those are really.
really potent and strongly concentrated so that can really burn the vulva tissue. So we want to be really gentle around these parts of our body because they are super sensitive. But yeah, I think if you had like extreme heat sensitivity and that felt really uncomfortable that maybe steaming really just isn't for you. But yeah, it's really meant to feel super relaxing and good. Those would be my main.
Kim (43:22.463)
Could somebody use your steam seat with just the red light?
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (43:30.477)
Yeah, yes.
Kim (43:31.935)
Like not turn the steam on, but just have the red light on.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (43:34.573)
Yeah, that would be a great way to... Yeah, a much... I don't know, it's like just a different form, I guess, of relaxing the tissues. And it doesn't get hot, so I feel like you don't have the same action on the surface of the skin, like the dropping of the labia and really opening of the vaginal canal. But I think, yeah, it could definitely still help. I know there's a lot of like sauna blankets and red light therapy blankets, and women are really like targeting...
Kim (43:42.461)
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (44:02.926)
their uterus for fertility of the ovaries in particular. So I think, yeah, it could be really great for that. Um, yeah, the seat also has a facial steam attachment. So if you weren't even interested in Yoni steaming as often, but wanted to get red light on your face or, you know, work with loose herbs and steam, that's another option with our device. So yeah, swap it out. But I like that you talked about, you know, inhalation, steam inhalation and facial steam and
Kim (44:14.111)
Oh, cool.
Kim (44:24.543)
Wow, okay, that's really cool. That's really cool.
Kim (44:31.997)
Yeah.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (44:32.47)
Yoni Steam and how, you know, why not? These are like our two tubes that are our gateways between this like outer environment and our interior world. So yeah, I think it's great for both ends.
Kim (44:39.007)
Yes.
Kim (44:44.127)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and you have graciously sent me one to be able to experience this. I have not done Yoni Seeming. I've done red light therapy as I've documented on my social media from a post -op recovery perspective. And I do it for other parts of my body as well. But I'm really, really excited to try this and I'll do, this will, well, actually I think I will have received it and used it before this publishes. So in the show notes, I'll post a little.
a little blurb about my experience, but now I'm even extra excited because you've got the face thing on there too. I love skincare and I'm always interested in that component as well. So I think you've really put your architect skills to really great use for modernizing. It's kind of like what we did with BellyZinc. We wanted to take a traditional practice and make it a little bit more accessible, make it a little bit more mainstream, bring in some of the new technologies that can just...
you know, allow us to embrace those practices but do it in a way that feels a little bit less woo for some people. Sometimes woo is a little too woo, right? I love woo, but yeah.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (45:50.158)
Mm -hmm. Too low.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (45:57.39)
No, I do too. Thank you for saying that too. Because there's a part of me that I'm like, oh my gosh, because I went through this really linear process of becoming an architect, getting licensed, starting a business. And then I was like, actually, no, skirt, I'm designing. And I'm we're at the point, you in our business too, where the products now physically here after years of development, we did a Kickstarter campaign and.
Kim (46:07.295)
Yeah.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (46:16.558)
really went through so many iterations and prototypes before really getting this right. It was really important to us to make sure this was going to be like super safe using super high quality materials and getting all the technology correct. So now it's been, you know, come to market in this, just this past year. And I've really had to say I'm still an architect, but I've architected a Yoni steam seat and yeah, it feels good. I'm excited about this merging of.
of talents and skill sets. But yeah, like I said, I would just never, this wasn't something I was on my awareness when I was studying. But yeah, I think that's kind of what's happening in these times is there's so much more like intersection happening. That's related to our own like personal lived experience in our bodies. So I'm grateful, even though this has been like a seven year process of producing, I've personally gotten to experience so many different life phases within it of,
Kim (46:46.847)
Yeah, yeah.
Kim (46:58.303)
Totally.
Kim (47:02.175)
Yeah.
Kim (47:12.959)
Yeah.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (47:13.952)
of birthing my children, of dealing with pregnancy loss, having amazing home birth experiences, using steam for that. Yeah, and kind of being in this other phase now of like in -betweenness of childbearing years and transitioning away. So I'm grateful for the timing of it all. But yeah, finally here.
Kim (47:26.077)
Mm -hmm.
Kim (47:31.199)
Very, very cool. And you have been gracious to have a code for my listeners as well, which I'll put into the show notes that will allow people to get a discount if they would like to try a Leia Moon steam seat as well. Where can people find you? Where can they learn more about you, your company, and your product?
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (47:51.021)
So our website is leiamoon .com, it's L -E -I -A, moon, and there's a lot of great expert interviews hosted on our site, blog posts, a lot of information there, a great FAQ page, so if you're curious to learn more, that's a good starting point. Feel free to reach out to me even directly, I love talking to people, I'm jessica at leiamoon .com, and we're also on Instagram at leiamoonwomen .com.
Same handle for Facebook and TikTok and YouTube and all those places too. So yeah, all the places.
Kim (48:22.499)
All places. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for using your background to create an amazing product and all of the research and exploration that you've done and the personal exploration that you've had. I think you've created something really, really amazing and I'm glad you introduced yourself to me and super grateful for this conversation. Thank you.
Jessica Birnbaum Pratt - LEIAMOON (48:41.997)
Thanks Cam, me too. Thanks for having me.
