Kim (00:02.546)
Welcome to this week's episode, Dr. Crystal Lau. Thank you very much for joining me. Nice to have you here.
Dr. Kristal Lau (00:09.363)
Thank you, Kim. I'm very thrilled to be here today.
Kim (00:12.11)
Mm-hmm. I'm really looking forward to our conversation because as we were talking offline, I let you know that a business that I had started was trying to bring Principles of what a lot of what you talk about into kind of the more mainstream So I'm really looking forward to learning more about your practice But if we can start by how did you get into? Chinese medicine first of all and what?
I know a program and book that you have is called Postpartum 30, so kind of evolve us or move us through to how that got created.
Dr. Kristal Lau (00:47.957)
Absolutely. So, well, starting from the beginning, my background is I am a Western trained medical doctor and I did my training back home in Malaysia, finished up in Australia. And that was supposed to be my pathway. I was supposed to remain and continue in geriatric medicine. I'm looking after the elderly, which is, I still have a passion for that. But then I met my husband. So we decided to.
Well, not we, but I decided, okay, I will give up my career and follow you because he's in the US military. So that was another adventure for me because I wanted to explore what was outside of medicine because that was the only thing I knew. I've always been sign stream. You're going to be a medic type of upbringing. And the biggest pivot for me was when I had my first child in Alabama and the traditional Chinese medicine ties in is I've always grown up with that in Malaysia.
It's something we day to day, we practice that. Plus we also have a very close relationship with our family doctors who are Western trained doctors. And even for them, they would recommend us and say, all right, sounds like you've got a cold. So make sure you keep your hydration, eat well, rest. And we usually say, if I want to take herbs, I want to see my traditional Chinese medicine doctor. They said, go ahead, no harm.
So I've always grown up with that. And when it comes to postpartum, that was the expected recovery process as well. My friends and even my mom, they're like, I know you're in Alabama, but you are going to do confinement, right? It was almost like, you gotta find a way girl, do it, or else your health will be affected down the road. That was the feeling I got as well. The bridge that I found here was...
I was able even in Alabama to source herbs because I knew who to look for. And by chance, I traveled to New York during, I think I was seven months pregnant at the time. And while I was in New York, I thought this is fantastic. It's multicultural, a lot of immigrants here as well, and expats. So I looked up, found a traditional Chinese medicine clinic. I went to see the doctor just to make sure that the herbs that I wanted for that 30 days fit with my...
Dr. Kristal Lau (03:06.481)
postpartum goals, which was to breastfeed. Because he asked me a question, which I was actually quite surprised. He said, do you intend to breastfeed or not? Because if not, I could prescribe you herbs to suppress lactation if you didn't want to do that. And I thought, that's an amazing question. My stereotype lens came in, because I expected this more elderly gentleman in that traditional Chinese medicine sense to just ask more generic questions. But I was like, oh, wonderful. I said, no, I plan to breastfeed. He's like, okay, then I'll make sure that
some herbs included will help with lactation boosting. I was like, wonderful. So I came home with that 15 packets of granules, which is amazing because we didn't have to boil the herbs. But then my husband was also curious to try boiling herbs. So we got 15 packets of herbs. We made space in our luggage for that. And in terms of the actual practice itself, my mom came to live with us for a good three months. But that first 30 days after I gave birth, I followed
pretty much almost everything strictly, except for the hair washing and showering. Because traditionally, we're supposed to not shower for 30 days, no hair washing for 30 days because of traditional Chinese medicine principles of cold and wind. But I was like, no, I can compromise and do two weeks. So that's what I did. I did two weeks of no washing hair, but I absolutely showered. I just made sure that I got dressed.
in the bathroom when it was still warm, avoided having the fan blowing at me. So because my mom was keeping a very close eye, she made sure I didn't drink anything that was cooler than room temperature. Always had my hot foods and the biggest thing I'm thankful for is that she was there to provide my meals. She would always be like, do you want a snack or anything? And she loved to cook fresh food, which I know realistically. So the second time around in Germany.
when I had my second kid, my husband, and because of COVID, my mom came later, but my husband was my confinement support person. Or as a joke, I call him my confinement manny. And yeah, he performed all the roles. So he looked after the home and everything. And I had an emergency C-section, so I definitely needed to rest. So in terms of the food, what we did differently was we pre-prepared a lot of things in bulk. We froze a lot of things. And
Dr. Kristal Lau (05:33.573)
But end of the day, when we still heat things up, we heat it up to a point where, of course there's food safety, but also to a point where we make sure I didn't have anything under room temperature to consume in that sense. So that worked out well. And I also got my herbs from a traditional Chinese medicine pharmacist here in Germany. Very interesting because she made it even easier for me. She just gave me a whole bottle of all the herbs that were already in granule and dried form.
she measured out exactly on the spoon, she put an indication. She said, it's just one teaspoon or one spoon of this per day and you're set for 30 days. I was like, oh, it makes it so much easier to follow. And so in terms of what I do now with clients and postpartum 30, and I say clients because I've left clinical work. For many reasons, one of the biggest thing was in my clinical work, I found so much barriers to practicing.
a lot of things following my value, just because of the way medical systems are around the world. They're very rigid and having been able to leave medicine and explore the world of just business and wellness in general, and I thought this could be an avenue for me. So I ventured further, did a master's in public health to learn more about how people perceive their health, health behaviors, all those kinds of things.
And my book came about because after going through my first confinement, I did ask my mom, I said, is there something for me to remember all these things you're telling me? Cause with the pregnancy, the tiredness, everything, I said, I cannot remember everything. I can write them down, but is there something I can refer to? And she's like, not really. And I know there's some books out there, um, mostly on recipes though, but not specifically on what do I do as a modern woman today?
in the 21st century, how do I follow these practices that are still comfortable and make sense for my lifestyle, for how far away my family members and friends are, and what I actually want out of this postpartum experience rather than someone telling me what to do. So that's how the book came to be. It was supposed to be a scrapbook at first, something I just put together to pass down to my girls. And then my brain told me, why don't you just take it further? Why don't you just write a book?
Dr. Kristal Lau (07:58.361)
So it became this way. And the biggest thing for me in terms of not just passing this down to my girls is I cannot speak Mandarin fluently nor read. I know very little. And a lot of these customs and traditions and even traditional Chinese medicine itself, there are a lot of textbooks today that are in English, but a lot of the nuances are still in the language. And I really don't foresee myself picking up Mandarin anytime in the near future.
Kim (07:58.477)
Hehehe
Kim (08:26.702)
I'm going to go to bed.
Dr. Kristal Lau (08:28.461)
And it's a thing I've tried in my younger years to learn. And it just wasn't meant to be. My parents themselves don't speak Mandarin at home, even in Malaysia. So there was no chance for me to practice the language. I went to school that we didn't speak the language. And I thought, well, there are so many women like me who just don't speak the language and we may never intend to. And it'd be such a waste if this knowledge was just lost in translation essentially. So I figured that's okay. We can write a book in English
for English speaking folks that still retain some of the nuances to it. So I worked with my mom quite closely on certain things just to make sure that I understood the context. Yeah, in translation. So yeah, so that's my merging of my medical background with growing up with traditional Chinese medicine. I engaged a traditional Chinese medicine doctor to help me with all the chapters where I introduced concepts of TCM.
Kim (09:09.998)
Yeah, I love that.
Dr. Kristal Lau (09:25.729)
I got the textbooks that she gave me, fascinating. I even asked my mom, why didn't she just ask me to do that instead of regular conventional medicine? So that's how I come to today where I do encourage, you know, folks, if you are of a different cultural background and you want to follow, especially South Asians, the Indians, they follow the Ayurveda style for.
Kim (09:34.048)
I'm going to go.
Dr. Kristal Lau (09:49.809)
postpartum recovery as well. And in Malaysia, we have the Malay ethnic groups, they have their own Pantang practices that they follow. A lot of the belly binding that you talked about, the Bengkong style that comes from the Indonesian Javanese side of things. So a lot of my work today is promoting the message that in postpartum, there's no one way to do it because we come from so many different backgrounds.
Kim (10:01.288)
Okay.
Kim (10:18.839)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kristal Lau (10:19.009)
And even the postpartum field and knowledge itself is growing and expanding because we've kind of... Just a lot of the literature I've been reading and doing in the content that I'm making for my own platform, I would say that science is slowly starting to catch up with the lived experiences of moms, not just today, but everything that has been passed down for generations. It's like, OK, we finally have science going. We believe you now.
We see you now. So that's, yeah, that's where I am today.
Kim (10:47.662)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's so interesting. So, okay, I've got a couple of questions that I was writing down here when you were talking. I think if you could define, as you were talking, what confinement is and what the term is, what are the practices of confinement? And you referenced 30 days. So as I understand it in your culture, 30 days is the confinement period. So...
talk a little bit about what that means and what those practices are. You've mentioned a couple, but what are some of the other practices that are common?
Dr. Kristal Lau (11:23.853)
Absolutely. So I'll go back first to the word confinement. I use it because in my part of the world when we ask each other, even the men, when they say is your wife going to do confinement, the first association is postpartum. But I do realize being here in the West when I say confinement, they go like, confine, like, am I like jailed somewhere? And so that's, that's the difference. But the essential term, the term comes from the Mandarin term itself.
which loosely translates to you're sitting for that time, which means to rest. And in Malaysia, a lot of parts we say confinement because you're confined to your home with your newborn to rest. And it was just an easier term for most of us who are English speaking to translate that concept. So that's why in my book and all that, going by that Malaysian background, I used the term confinement. And the 30 days.
The interesting thing is looking back in the history of confinement, how long the confinement period is depended on the imperial doctor of that dynasty that was in power. So there was a literature which was mostly a translation of like childbirth experiences in imperial China. They described confinement periods from seven days up to a hundred days or even a year.
It really depended on what that doctor of the dynasty decreed was the procedure to follow after you've given birth. And then for most of the regular people, you follow what the royals do because you want to be like them. And a lot of the documentation was really just what the royal families and the royal doctors had, because most of the people then obviously were illiterate. And a lot of things were just passed on as word of mouth. For myself, I go by 30 days because it makes sense for our modern lifestyle right now.
And a lot of countries, in Malaysia especially, we have three months of maternity leave, mandatory maternity leave. So when you say 30 days, it's a good calendar month. It makes sense. And then I have kind of two months to come out of confinement and then start going back to work after that. Some families in Malaysia do 40 days. And a lot of this practice is also very family driven on top of the ethnic group.
Dr. Kristal Lau (13:48.705)
And even within the Chinese ethnic groups, you've got the different dialects and each dialects have their own suggestions or rules around types of food you can consume during this time. Which even my mom, she's like, oh, no, that's too complex. Let's just go by, let's just go by a more simple recommendation that a lot of the traditional Chinese medicine doctors recommend, then we'll just follow that. So, so that's what I follow. And
Kim (14:04.174)
Thank you.
Dr. Kristal Lau (14:17.401)
Going back to what practices are. So the big thing is nutrition is very huge. The only caveat with nutrition is the traditional recommendations are all very protein-based because you've got to replenish your chi, your blood, and the yin and yang, the hot and cold. You want things that really bring the body up to heat because the concept of losing blood, and this is what the...
the TCM doctor explained to me was when you go through pregnancy and then childbirth, the principle is that your channels open up. And when your channels open up, imagine as though like your pores open up, anything could come in and out of you. So to preserve the good things, you want to boost the body from inside out to retain the heat, the hot and everything to nurture the body so that when your channels close, you don't trap the coldness and the dampness and the wind in the body.
So that's the principle around that. So a lot of the food was pork knuckle with vinegar and a lot of ginger. I do love the ginger in general because it just makes you pass all that wind and the bloatedness and postpartum. To me, it helped me a lot on top of hydration. And I think my doctor in Alabama asked me to take a gas X, simethicone if I needed to remove bloating, but the ginger helped me a lot.
And the other part on top of nutrition is your hydration. Strictly in traditional sense, they only want postpartum moms to drink tea.
When I asked my mom why, when she passed down to me, she was like, it's just good for you. And that's what we've always done. But looking back, and I think this comes from that public health center, and this is where my medical background kicked in to try and make sense of why did we do these things way back in the ancient days. When you think about serving mostly hot foods and teas for postpartum moms, you have to cook the water, which means you clean the water.
Dr. Kristal Lau (16:21.581)
as opposed to if you just took a room temperature water, chances are way back then you wouldn't have the capacity to, like they didn't have the sanitation and water treatment things that we do today. So when I spoke to my TCM contact, she says, oh yes, you can drink water. We don't follow that very much today. And I said, okay, thank you very much for clarifying that we're progressing in that sense. The other thing is hygiene, the no washing hair and no showering.
that links to again the dampness and the cold. Because when your channels are open and they're starting to close, when water comes in contact with the body, the TCM principles state that you allow your body to introduce coldness and dampness. And once that gets trapped in your body, that could travel around your body leading to arthritis when you get older, aches and pains, and just general worsening of health. That's what they go by. But for me,
I reckon, and that's what I explained in my book, I think it all comes back down to public health. Way back when I'm drawing waters from the wells from the river, I don't know if someone has done their business in the river upstream, and if I as a new mom in recovery, I were to take a bath in that water, I could expose myself to illness and pathogens. But if someone was able, if I was a royal family and they could boil the water for me, I think I can wash just fine. So again, it ties back to that.
The other practices are a lot of resting. And the big thing that I challenge is traditionally, you're not allowed to have strong emotions during your entire confinement period. That does tie into a TCM concept where strong emotions does upset the internal balances of your body, leading them to ill health. But postpartum is so chaotic. It's so emotional.
It really isn't practical to ask a new mom, especially today. And when modern moms have so much on our shoulders, we have so much on our plate, it's not practical to say, no, just suppress those baby blues. You'll be fine because you're eating fine. You've got your herbs. You'll be all right. Just ignore the emotions. That doesn't work. And that's where I challenge that. And it's something I also brought up with my mom, but...
Kim (18:34.83)
I'm going to go to bed.
Dr. Kristal Lau (18:46.497)
She actually had to follow all that and emotions is not even a thing we really address as a personal daughter mother relationship. So that's something in my book that I encourage is instead of suppressing your emotions during this time, find outlets for it, whether you journal, talk to your partner, or definitely engage a mental health provider or your health provider during this time.
And one of the big parts of traditional confinement practice is fathers and husbands are exclusively excluded. In that very traditional sense, if fathers come in contact with the mom and newborn before they complete their confinement, it's believed that is bad luck.
Kim (19:31.594)
Wow, so fathers are not engaging with you or their newborn for 30 days? Wow.
Dr. Kristal Lau (19:37.401)
Yeah, back in the olden days, so the rich families, they could have a confinement apartment. So mom and baby will be completely whisked away after giving birth, staying there. And then when they complete the confinement, that's why we have a lot of celebrations as well. And part of my book, which sounds nice because end of all of this, if you really follow through and not wash your hair for 30 days and all of those things, it's nice to just let go and celebrate. And back then they did that too.
a 30 day full moon celebration, they call it, or the 100 day celebration for the baby, where the mom and baby kind of emerges from the room having taken a special bath and new clothes, and then the father can see them and the husband can see them. So yeah, so I think in that sense, that has evolved till today where, and this ties in with even modern postpartum care, a lot of spouses, non birthing partners, spouses, fathers and husbands are just.
really sidelined. And but if we think about it, they have their own part to play in the postpartum journey. Definitely postpartum is mother centered with, you know, the infant care as well. But when you have other family members living with you, they are all very intimately involved with the postpartum journey. So that's another thing in my postpartum 30 that I really encourage. Literally every chapter I have a section on.
a note for the supporting person and I always say I encourage the immediate spouse and partner to be the main supporting person because then you get involved, you learn how to care for your other half who's recovering from birth, you get intimately involved with the infant care and I mean to be honest a lot of men today I don't think they really had much to model after because it just wasn't really done in the previous generation. So
for them to get involved, yeah, for them to get involved. And even my husband had the same feeling. So the first time he wanted to get involved so much and my mama said, no, it's okay. In her mind, she's wanting him to just don't worry about it. But in his mind, he's thinking, do you think I cannot take care of my new baby and my wife? So that was that clash. And that's another thing in my book. I do offer strategies that if you have...
Kim (21:32.056)
Yeah.
Dr. Kristal Lau (21:59.425)
a mother-in-law, your own parent wanting to come in, but you want to have your own confinement experience, how do you tackle that? How do you make both sides happy? Because when it comes to such a cultural practice, a lot of times it's very emotionally charged. Even if you try to bring logic in, which is what I, it's from personal experience, what I tried to do, it never really works out. But when you address it, when you address the emotion,
And because we are that generation who are trying to break out of cycles and do new things, we just have to play the part of doing extra work to make both sides happy.
Kim (22:39.294)
Yeah, yeah. So interesting. And as you're speaking, looking back on the business that I created was called Belly Zinc. And we were recognizing that the and I actually lived in Indonesia when I was in high school. And so, you know, other cultures do things so much differently than we do. And in North America, it's a sprint to get back to the gym. We don't want to look pregnant as fast as possible. So we're revering this belly.
all through pregnancy. And then as soon as we give birth, it's a place of shame. We have to make the belly go away and get back to the gym. And then we are celebrating these women who are at the gym at two weeks postpartum and not looking pregnant. And I'm thinking that's against everything that we're trying to promote, especially in my field with regards to pelvic health, we need time to recover. We need time to retrain, we need to replenish. And so in researching many of the cultures around the world who practice some sort of a confinement
mother roasting, mother warming traditions. Like these words are used in many colors around the world. And as you said, there's some of them were 30, a common one I saw was 40 days. So the first 40 days set you up for the next 40 years. And the concepts of the body opens during pregnancy and birth and we need time to allow it to close, so to speak. And so that was all what
Dr. Kristal Lau (23:41.504)
Mm-hmm.
Kim (24:02.774)
we brought into our messaging and to the development of the rap. So we didn't want it to just be, put this rap on and your abs are gonna be flat. It was really meant to be more of a support for the pelvis actually, and an external kind of, almost like we think about swaddling babies and how that comforts babies. And we viewed it as almost like swaddling the mom, only we didn't have quite the intricate rap, like Bangkok rapping or.
Dr. Kristal Lau (24:17.029)
Yes.
Kim (24:30.93)
It was a little bit more modern and it was mainly focused on the pelvis, but it, it allowed movement and it allowed you to breathe. And then we put the exercise to it. And then we provided education about traditional herbs. So we had a, a warming bomb that you could rub on your belly. And we talked about the nourishing foods and everything that you've talked about here. So the piece that you haven't mentioned is, is belly wrapping a part of the confinement period that.
you went through or that you talk about in your book.
Dr. Kristal Lau (25:04.697)
For my family, it wasn't part of it. It was from, I'm just thinking back about growing up, the stories or the women that I've heard about belly wrapping were mostly the Malay women, because like I said, with your experience in Indonesia, but because we're in Malaysia, then we borrow from the different cultures and include that. So right now, when...
Kim (25:17.742)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kristal Lau (25:28.705)
a pair when a family hires a confinement nanny or they go and stay at a confinement center, they do offer the massaging, the belly wrapping as well, and acupuncture for some of them. They do offer those things as part of the confinement experience. And this is where I do like things in Malaysia because we have such an influence of all three cultures and everyone borrows from each other that when we say confinement or if you go into postpartum.
You can use whichever you like out of everyone's, but definitely the family influence is very strong. As my mom never encouraged me to belly wrap, so I didn't for the first time, but I did for my second pregnancy. And I did feel a difference in just the feeling of being supported. That I didn't feel like everything was hanging out, so to speak, that like now my belly is so hollow that I, it was a weird adjustment time.
Kim (26:24.578)
Yeah, we sort of lose our center connection. I remember when I was in the hospital, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Star Wars characters, but there's a Star Wars character named Jabba the Hutt. And it's like a big blob. And I describe it not in the way that I felt that I looked like Jabba the Hutt, but I felt like I felt like Jabba the Hutt, where it was just like I wasn't connected. And I just sort of felt like this, like lump almost. It was just nothing was.
Dr. Kristal Lau (26:34.557)
Mm-hmm.
Kim (26:52.926)
nothing felt sturdy, nothing felt secure. And I didn't know about rapping at the time and head-eye, I could imagine how good that would feel to create kind of that external support while we work on building that internal support again.
Dr. Kristal Lau (27:06.385)
Absolutely. And even now, because in the modern side or the Western side, we'd like to look at evidence-based. And that's what I've been trained as well. I always look for evidence-based. And that's why anything outside of conventional medicine, well, at least 10 years ago, when I was in med school, they would kind of poo it. Oh, if there's no evidence, we're not even going to consider it. But slowly now, and these...
small studies are coming out of Indonesia, very tiny, sample size of five to ten women, and COVID affected their study as well. They're looking at belly binding for uterine contractions and also for uterine involution, sorry, and for diastasis recti to see if that helps. So their preliminary results are promising, but definitely because the sample size is so small, they definitely need to do something bigger. But I think it's a good start to say, hey,
maybe something worth looking at, then we can incorporate this in into the actual recommendations on postpartum care.
Kim (28:06.978)
Right. Yeah, totally. And that's what, you know, our principle along the way has always been that we didn't want to wait for research. This was something that was really very low risk. And when we think about also the explosion of, at least in North America, doulas and postpartum doulas. And, you know, it was supporting what we were trying to do is build a village around you to help you through this very transformational time. In many cultures around the world, villages...
part of the culture and we in North America, we don't typically have that as much anymore. Our village now has become our phone with our social media and we don't have as many family members close by. And so we're hiring doulas, which are amazing and thankful to have those practices. So there's even doulas who now do the sacred postpartum, it's called, which involves a lot of the principles of mother roasting and confinement and belly wrapping, Bangkok, that type of thing, and the massages and the bombs. So
Dr. Kristal Lau (29:00.268)
Mm-hmm.
Kim (29:05.506)
So it's interesting. So a question I wrote down also when you were talking about it is, so curious as to why you did it the second time and you mentioned that you had a caesarian the second time. So was belly wrapping, the decision to belly wrap part of that, did that suggest to you that you would want to or was it another reason? And does the confinement practice change if you have a vaginal birth versus a caesarian birth?
Dr. Kristal Lau (29:33.061)
Perfect questions. I love this because I did address that in my book as well. So first thing with the belly wrapping, I made the decision before I went into labor. Because of that feeling of hollow, like you talked about, I wanted to feel a bit more secure. So I purchased all the... I got the Velcro ones because I don't know how to do the bun kong tying knots. And yeah, and I don't have people here to teach me.
Kim (29:54.051)
No, it's elaborate.
Dr. Kristal Lau (29:59.337)
So I thought, okay, I'll just get something, a wrap thing that I liked. And that's what I used. And with the C-section, because it was emergency and I really thought it was going to be another vaginal birth because when I presented, I was already five centimeters dilated, but then 20 hours later, they're like, no, fetal distress got to go. But my, so I definitely checked with my OBGYN because I wasn't sure as well. Like, can I belly wrap with the C-section? Like it's a fresh wound.
What she recommended to me for my case was do it bit by bit, but you got to let your wound and your scar kind of breathe and rest. So I only used it when I was mobilizing up and down because it was really painful. I've assisted in a C-section one time in med school, right opposite the surgeon as the other person. So when I was going through my own procedure, I was good Lord, I know exactly what they're doing to me. I could see so.
So in my recovery, I guess envisioning what happened during the surgery, I thought, okay, when I walk, I definitely felt more secure having the belly wrapped around. And I really felt it helped with my pain. At least the pain felt less when I was mobilizing in that belly wrap during the early recovery times of C-section. And in terms of this confinement change, whether it's a vaginal birth or a C-section, no.
The only difference is, do you want to start your confinement while you're in hospital? Just because we usually stay a few more days longer after a major surgery. That's what I did. I started in hospital in a sense. I started my foods and my hydration. I do remember it was a little bit chilly at the time because I gave birth in Germany in September. But I was like, I need my comfort first. So as much as...
all those concepts of keeping warm. I was sweating so much. When window was open with a breeze, I'm like, I'll do the warm stuff later. So and the other thing is, depending on the type of medications that you're on, you need to double check with both your OBGYN and which is why it's better to have a traditional Chinese medicine doctor give you a prescription or at least talk to them like, Hey, this happened.
Kim (31:54.958)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.
Dr. Kristal Lau (32:18.949)
you know, do we need to change the herbs or not? So I was lucky in a sense, I did have the TCM pharmacist here in Germany and because of the way Germany's rules are with importing the herbs and even the locals use herbal treatments, maybe not the Chinese type of herbs, but they're like chamomile teas and any other more.
European herbs, they have a plethora of those in the pharmacy here. And even the doctors would ask you like if you have a cold go get that tea from that Apotheca and use that first. So very interesting the way they approach that. So my pharmacist was able to give me some advice on okay if you're on regular meds like hyperprofen and paracetamol or you know acetaminophen.
that's not going to clash very much. And my bleeding wasn't too much. Everything was going well. And I talked to my OB-GYN. So I used back the same prescription from my first time because I had also planned to continue breastfeeding for my second. That went well. So the only caveat I would say is if you end up having a C-section and you already have a confinement plan is definitely talk to the OB-GYN and...
if you have that TCM doctor, call them to chat about those things just to make sure. Just because we know some herbs, they can accelerate bleeding and those effects in the body. So it's always worth checking, especially if you've had a major surgery.
Kim (33:49.69)
And is there, so a lot of what you've talked about, I would say is supportive of the pelvic floor. So obviously in the world that I talk about, I, and especially from a postpartum perspective, I, I want people to rest. I want them to have time where they aren't upright against gravity, but I want them to be doing things that increase blood flow and circulation. And I want them to be re nourish, replenishing their chi and nourishing their body and staying hydrated. So.
A lot of it really supports all the things that I promote, but is there anything specific that has been passed down through the generations in your family or even in other cultures where they focus, like do they give any recommendations about Kegel exercises or anything to do with that?
Dr. Kristal Lau (34:30.364)
Hmm.
Dr. Kristal Lau (34:38.033)
actually no, not at all. That's something that's not touched because the idea is the only related advice is don't have sex with your husband for the whole confinement or a few months after. That was the closest thing to a pelvic floor health related advice. But most of the time it's just rest. I guess don't do housework, don't lift heavy stuff because you they know that the body has been weakened at that point that it needs to recover.
But I do know that the TCM doctor I spoke to, she's based in the States and she's trying to get her patients from all walks of life in her area to, you know, follow confinement after giving birth. We talked a bit about exercise and she's like, oh yes. Again, way back in the days, they wanted moms to bed rest, but we know now bed rest does nothing good for the body. So even for her in her TCM practice, she does encourage light exercise, which is the recommendation these days.
like exercise after giving birth. So, but now, but I would say even pelvic floor rehab or even going to see a pelvic floor specialist just to get an assessment after giving birth, that is not routinely done in Malaysia, not routinely done in Australia, definitely in Germany and France. I'm sure you've heard all about the European approach. Yeah. So even for the States, I knew how to ask for the referrals because again, of my background and understanding.
Kim (35:56.618)
Thank you.
Dr. Kristal Lau (36:07.721)
how the referral systems work in hospitals. Although I've only practiced in Australia, but you get the sense of how things work in health systems in general. So I knew to ask my OBS, I would like to get a referral to a pelvic force specialist just to assess. Plus I did have urinary leakage. So there was also a legit reason for the referral.
Kim (36:28.686)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. That's so interesting. And I love, I mean, there's been stories and, you know, like there hasn't been the books as you were saying that your mom just says, well, we just know it and we just pass it down. But there's also this evolution that we can take those stories and make small tweaks or add things or change based on the lifestyle or the culture that we are now living in.
And so I think that's what your book has done so well is to kind of bridge that gap of the traditional versus our modern day world. So what's the name of your book and where can people find it?
Dr. Kristal Lau (37:10.649)
The book is Postpartum 30 with the number 30 and you just key that in an Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, anywhere online you can get that.
Kim (37:19.81)
Yeah, that's amazing. And when did you release it?
Dr. Kristal Lau (37:22.517)
April this year. It took me two years to write the book. I started when I was pregnant. Yeah, I was started when I was pregnant with my second. I thought, oh, twinsies, I'll give birth and have the book. But no, but it was tough because, um, and then things happened here in Germany with the Ukraine, Russia things deployment. So I was like, it's okay. This book, baby, we'll have to sit the back burner for a bit. That's fine. But it's done. And I'm glad that I, I'm really glad that I did it because it's, um, I grew up.
Kim (37:25.482)
Yeah, it's not easy.
Kim (37:31.51)
Hahaha
Kim (37:40.082)
Mm-hmm. It's nice.
Dr. Kristal Lau (37:51.677)
using both parts of the world in terms of the health approaches. And then when I studied medicine in that modern Western side approach, I felt like I had to choose one or the other. And that really didn't sit right for me. So the first two, three years practicing as a really junior doctor and trying to find my place, I always felt I had to choose. Or if I started to entertain my patients and their families' suggestions on
oh, this is not working, I want to try something else. I always felt like, oh, am I being too woo or whatnot. But as I got more confident in my practice and met bosses who were supportive of alternative and complementary therapies, I was like, this is the way. Like we really, we need to embrace, there's no, we don't have the answers to everything, even in modern medicine, traditional medicine and complementary, they don't have the answers either. But we could find answers if we use both to supplement, so.
Kim (38:50.582)
Yeah. And I see that more and more since COVID. It sort of has really been a catalyst for change in health care. And that's going to be very slow to actually be adopted everywhere. But more and more people became a little more hesitant, I would say, with regards to allopathic or the mainstream medical model. And also we just...
Dr. Kristal Lau (38:56.838)
Yes.
Dr. Kristal Lau (39:15.11)
Mm-hmm.
Kim (39:18.454)
they couldn't get care, they couldn't receive care because everything was closed down or max capacity. So they were looking at other options and then researching and everybody had lots of time to be on the internet. So we were Googling and finding all these other things. And I think it's opened people's eyes up to possibilities and hopefully it will encourage more of that collaboration that as you've recognized and as I've always believed is really the best is.
Dr. Kristal Lau (39:27.769)
Yes.
Kim (39:43.502)
The allopathic model is great for pharmaceuticals and emergencies and surgeries. And there's other practices that are more supportive of kind of preventive overall wellness. And the two together really can be, I think, more supportive of our overall health and wellbeing as we age.
Dr. Kristal Lau (39:50.101)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kristal Lau (40:02.173)
Absolutely. You even see this in conventional medicine. Lifestyle medicine is a growing branch. They're coining it as a branch of medicine that focuses on prevention and nutrition based on pillars, which is true because even thinking back in medical school, we have very little... I don't know about the curriculum today, but I started med school in 2008. And when I went through the curricula at the time, very...
We knew enough about nutrition and prevention, very specific chronic diseases. But then again, I do realize we, it's good that we specialize in what we do, because that's the point. I don't want to also go to someone who is the jack of all trades and kind of just get a bit here and there, you want someone to be able, but I do wish for back then there was more encouragement of collaboration and understanding what
other health providers did that we, if we don't know, we could say, Hey, maybe I can refer you to this other person. But that's where the lifestyle medicine branch is trying to address today is this more collaborative, which I do feel a bit arrogant. I'm like, Oh, that's why you should have, you know, like I do believe all junior doctors should go through geriatric medicine because of the way you approach elderly health, you must work in a multidisciplinary team. And even
If you're a doctor or consultant, there are times when you're a physical therapist or an Australian physiotherapist, they take the charge of patient management because that's what the patient needs to go home. Then we take a seat back. So a lot of humbling moments and learning when to be a leader, when to step back, and then learning how to refer and lean on your colleagues. So I'm arrogant in that sense. I'm like, oh, we're ahead of you guys.
Kim (41:51.395)
I love that. That's so interesting. So where can people find you? You've told us about your book, but where can people learn more about you, your practice and any other things that you might be up to in the future?
Dr. Kristal Lau (42:03.213)
Sure, I'm most active on Instagram and the handle is mamaswingwoman. It's M-A-M-A-S-W-I-N-G-W-O-M-A-N.
Kim (42:12.814)
Amazing. And I'll put the link of that in the, in the show note, Dr. Lau, thank you so much for your time and for writing. I think this is such an important book and I wish that it had been around when I started my company because it would have been a perfect, perfect fit and compliment to it. But the company still does exist. So there is still an amazing woman running Belly's Inc. And I'm definitely in a director to this episode and to your books. I think it'd be a great resource for the community she has. So thank you so much for your time.
Dr. Kristal Lau (42:26.817)
Eh.
Dr. Kristal Lau (42:32.548)
Nice.
Dr. Kristal Lau (42:39.819)
Thank you too.
Kim (42:43.102)
Okay, that was awesome. So interesting.
Dr. Kristal Lau (42:44.945)
Oh, thank you so much. Yeah.
