Kim (00:01.815)
Hello my friend, how are you?
Shirley (00:03.062)
Hi, I'm great. I'm better now that I get to see you and talk with you.
Kim (00:09.341)
I am really, so I remember when I reached out to you and you said, I thought you would never ask when I was asking you to be a guest on the show. And I wanted to, I wanted to reserve you for a little bit after, after we had a little bit of traction in the, in the podcast, I wanted to reserve you.
Shirley (00:13.998)
HAHA
Shirley (00:22.261)
I was teasing you. I can talk to you every single day if I please.
Kim (00:26.947)
Yes, so for those of you listening, Shirley and I are actually neighbors. And if when you heard in the intro, the story of kind of how we connected and it's been about 10 years, right? You've had your 10 year anniversary recently and I was just meeting you as you were just as you were just sort of cracking open that conversation, right? Yeah, yeah, I know. So why did you...
Shirley (00:40.194)
little over 10 years.
Shirley (00:46.67)
True, I didn't know what I didn't know.
Kim (00:51.935)
Let's start with why you started. What brought you to wanting to crack open the conversation of menopause and developing your amazing community called Menopause Chicks.
Shirley (01:03.214)
I tell this story like a few different ways, but here's one way I don't think that I've shared in a long time and that is I quickly, I mean I did what every other smart savvy woman does when she has questions. I went to Dr. Google and what came back was, it was disgusting. I was so upset for myself, but I was so upset for...
Kim (01:17.304)
Hmm
Shirley (01:25.77)
other women who might be awake at three in the morning looking for the same information. And it was confusing and it was conflicting and there was no community. There was no place where I could be like, hey, can I just check with the vagina coach and have this verified? It just didn't exist. And so the marketer in me saw this huge gap and I thought, well, I'll just, what everyone was doing back then was I'll start a blog and that will save the world.
And that blog kind of took over my life's work, which is amazing.
Kim (02:00.991)
Yeah, it is amazing. It is remarkable. So for those of you that haven't been to the Menopause Chicks community on Facebook, what is your community size right now? It's over 50, I think, right?
Shirley (02:12.482)
We're getting close to 51,000 I think today.
Kim (02:15.979)
Yeah, that's incredible. That's incredible. So it started with you were dealing with changes in your body and you went to Dr. Google saying, what does this mean? What's happening with this? And led you to, as you say, this big void. So what is the void? I learned, like what I mean by that is your brand, your title is Menopause Chicks. So obviously we're in that conversation of menopause, but.
Shirley (02:40.235)
Yes.
Kim (02:43.055)
I learned from you that menopause is one day. I also learned for the first time the term perimenopause and not knowing that when I look back on it, all the shit storm, pardon my language, that I was going through in my 40s was really to do with perimenopause, which I had never heard that term at the time. So yeah, so what were your...
Shirley (02:48.854)
Yes.
Shirley (02:56.174)
you
Shirley (03:02.294)
I know, it's so true, it's so true. So the other part of my story was, I found myself, probably around age 41, waking up every morning at 3 a.m., brain fog that was really scaring, like the bejesus out of me. My family was, you know, relied on my income.
I had two small kids, I was running a business trying to take care of clients and get new clients and my aging mother who was from Ontario, was living with us at the time. She was showing signs of dementia. I'm juggling her health appointments. If you're listening to this, like I know there are like thousands and thousands and thousands of women who are.
juggling all of those plates as well. But for me, what I, you know, what took me to my doctor in my early 40s was, I don't have time for this. I need to figure out the answer and put a nail in it, right? And
Kim (03:50.199)
Mm-hmm.
Shirley (04:05.686)
When I went to talk to my doctor and I mentioned the word menopause, because I didn't know the word perimenopause either at the time, and now this is going back 15, 16 years ago, she told me the truth. She said, Shirley, you're too young, right? Because I was 41. And then I...
That was the end of the conversation. It was like an eight minute appointment. She already had her hand on the door handle on her way out of the room. By the time I had said the word menopause. So I was left quite disappointed, um, initially by that conversation. And then I just got to work. I was like, I can't be the only person in the world that feels this way. Um, now I have the wisdom and the experience of 15 or 16 years to realize.
Kim (04:45.706)
Mm-hmm.
Shirley (04:52.97)
Maybe all of the things that I was experiencing in my early 40s weren't all related to perimenopause, which is simply the fluctuation of our hormones. I wasn't being truthful with myself. I wasn't holding up a mirror and saying, you are sleep deprived. Your cortisol is off the charts. That's contributing to your sleep deprivation, to your to your rage with your children, which was like a real concern. Right.
You spend all this time thinking about, oh, I wanna be a mom someday, and then you're a mom and you're screaming at them because they wanna wear shorts in the middle of the winter. Like I was just, it was crazy. It was crazy. But the good news is I was able to surround myself with so many generous and kind health professionals like yourself.
who set me on a path of learning where to go, where to look for the quality information, how to sort out the fact from the fiction. I think there's a definite role in the online space and the online communities that we've created, but everything online is not for all of us, right? So it's like teaching women how their body works, but also teaching women how to really be curious
Kim (06:05.996)
Mm-hmm.
Shirley (06:15.848)
questions and be their own best health advocate. So that really kind of helped me steer to the work that I do today, which is every day just ensuring that women have that information and that they're reminded that this isn't like a, we're not handing out permission slips to suffer. We're handing out permission slips to put your own name first and take care of yourself. So earlier, hopefully than I did. Yeah.
Kim (06:43.763)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it, right. We have a healthcare model mainly in like, I'll say kind of North America. It's, it's a lot more reactive, not proactive. And, and when we're looking for these answers, we may be given, uh, you know, the comments of, oh, you're too young. And then we just, and the, the story closes, the door closes and we're sort of left thinking that we must be the only one, are we going crazy? And then.
Shirley (06:54.434)
Cool, then.
Shirley (07:06.872)
Yeah.
Kim (07:10.347)
You mentioned the online space and while it is great because we have this incredible wealth of information available, it's also, holy crap, overwhelming. And when you talk about being curious, we also have to learn what we need to look for, but then we have to learn how do we know if this is accurate and valid and if this is the correct information? And how do I go about, we just don't know. We're never given these tools. And so you've done such an amazing job of one, creating that community where people can come
and feel safe to ask, but also then answering in ways that gives them more tools, as well as providing them incredible tools that can help them, such as here's questions, here's how to ask your doctor, here's how to go and talk to your doctor. So let's start there. I wanna come, I wanna go, I wanna go a different direction in a minute, but can you talk a little bit about that? Why did you create that as a tool for people in your community?
giving them a document really that they could bring with them to their healthcare appointment.
Shirley (08:13.738)
Yeah, so first of all, like, we don't always need to see our doctor. Like...
we should see our family doctor for certain things, but just because you might be in your early 40s, mid 40s, late 40s, approaching menopause, the average age is 51 in North America, doesn't necessarily mean you don't need to be diagnosed or you don't need a treatment, but at the same time, you mentioned the healthcare model, and I did see that is one of the barriers to women's health, for women to achieve ultimate health.
for healthcare does get in the way. I think about my mother. She worshipped anyone that wore a white lab coat.
Whereas my generation, her daughters, we would stand up to a physician and maybe ask a few more probing questions or clarifying questions. But my parents, no, whatever their doctor said was it, then they'd come home and sit at the table and try to decipher what they thought they had heard in their doctor's appointment. So I think as generations move forward, we're kind of learning and even the concept of teaming up with our doctor.
inviting them to be a part of our team or getting on our health bus. I think those are all new concepts, but I couldn't really find anything. And, you know, there's lots of things that we're not taught. There's lots of things we're taught in school. There's lots of things we're not taught. You can graduate from high school today and not know how to do your taxes and not know how to, you know, talk to your doctor and be your own best friend.
Kim (09:53.567)
Yep, and not know what your vagina is versus your vulva.
Shirley (09:56.178)
and not know the difference between the vulva and the vagina. Yeah. So and the best part was I was really starting the menopause chicks movement around the time that Facebook was growing rapidly with women.
my age, right? So Facebook really, you know, it appeals to a midlife or older woman. And it just became a place, as you said, where women were feeling that this could be trusted, that if a private community was a new tool that Facebook was introducing, and the conversation of menopause was happening, then it was some way where we could close the gap. I think when I started, the statistic
77% of women had questions about their midlife health. And at first that seems really alarming, but then when you kind of sit back and ask, why is that? Well, we might have learned in school, you know, how to make a baby. And then like the next week learned how not to make a baby. And that is usually like the end of our health class. I did not know.
until I was well into adulthood anything about the roles and responsibilities of estrogen and progesterone. Or, to be honest with you Kim, the difference between the bulb and the vagina. Like, I just didn't know.
Kim (11:29.399)
Yeah, yeah, you're not alone. I would put myself in that exact same, exact same bucket. So when you started your community, you were kind of coming again, okay, now these are all the experiences that I've had in my 40s and I can't be alone. And you were setting things up almost to be like, not a Q&A platform, but you were expecting certain topics to come up that you would then be able to provide information for. And you felt...
at the time that the most common thing would be hot flashes. Is that right?
Shirley (12:01.542)
Well, I had never experienced a hot flash and neither had my sister. She reached menopause early at age 36. But that's all we heard about, you know, from marketers and media. So I wouldn't have been surprised if my community wanted more information about hot flashes. And, you know, they still do. Although surprisingly, it's probably not the first thing at the top of the list that we talk about. But for me, I mean, I was just so egotistical. I was like, oh, I bet you everybody
Kim (12:11.128)
Mm-hmm.
Shirley (12:31.256)
wants me to do more research on brain fog and sleep deprivation and some of the anxiety, because that's what I was feeling. And so, you know, do you want me to do more of this? Right. So I did a survey. Again, the marketer in me said, like, let's ask the community what they want and
The response was really surprising. Yeah, lo and behold. The answer came back overwhelmingly. Number one on the list was surely find another solution for vaginal dryness.
Kim (12:50.015)
lo and behold.
Kim (13:02.147)
Mm-hmm, crazy. And you hadn't heard really of that at that point.
Shirley (13:07.062)
I'd heard a tiny little bit about vaginal dryness. It's not obviously the first thing that comes up in any search for menopause or women's midlife health information.
my sister did reach menopause early and she allows me to share her story. And her doctor told her very little other than you need to go and find somebody else who can support your health. Otherwise, these were his exact words. Everything will shrink and dry up. And when she relayed that to me, I was like, I don't know what he means. What shrinks? What dries up? Like it was just this.
Oh my gosh, and of course I'm 10 years younger than she is. So I was 26 and I did not wanna talk about anything shrinking or drying up, so.
But when I'm doing this research, you know, back to like 10 years ago, asking my community what they wanted to know, it was really easy. When I reached out to the experts that, like I mentioned, who have been so generous in the work that I do, we know that over 84% of women will experience vulva and vaginal dryness within six years of menopause.
Kim (13:59.875)
No.
Shirley (14:28.238)
and it doesn't get better with time. So that statistic was really like quite obvious, but the one that hit me really hard was that less than 4% of women have an easy viable solution.
That's why when I was doing the, what do you want me to research? That's why I was getting that back because obviously, I had opened the door, I had cracked open the conversation. Women had now kind of trusted that they could share what their real needs were with me. And they were saying, we need another solution. I'm being turned away from my doctor. My doctor doesn't have any information or any solutions. Relationships were breaking down, right? Women's health, sexual health was being impacted.
Kim (15:09.702)
Mm-hmm.
Shirley (15:13.924)
mental health, quality of life, all of those things were significantly impacting their lives. So, yeah.
Kim (15:23.304)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah, and it's, I mean, it is so common as you mentioned, but when you Google menopause, when you're reading anything about menopause, it is always about poor sleep, anxiety, brain fog, excuse me, hot flashes. And now, in the last year-ish, I have seen that genitourinary syndrome of menopause, GSM,
Shirley (15:47.854)
Okay. Yeah.
Kim (15:50.187)
is now being included in that conversation. So the world of menopause has exploded in the last few years, and I would put a lot of that credit to people like you who've been the trailblazers of bringing attention to this. But so it's exploded and amazing, there's a lot more information out there. And as a result, the world of pelvic health has now expanded and opened, and I'm now no longer taken down from the internet for saying the word vagina.
Shirley (15:56.312)
Yes.
Shirley (16:16.056)
Yes.
Kim (16:16.687)
And so there's positive change that's happening. And that umbrella term of GSM encompasses vaginal dryness, vaginal atrophy, urinary incontinence, prolapse, painful sex. And so while it's a bit of a mouthful of a term and it's, you know, and I think it's good that at least there's a different bucket for people to look in if somebody is trained in treating people going through menopause.
Shirley (16:27.594)
Thanks.
Shirley (16:33.088)
Yeah.
Kim (16:45.367)
or supporting them through that process, they can now look and ask questions maybe about these topics, whereas before it was, it probably wasn't even covered at all and people don't even know that it is something that they can ask and a lot of time people are embarrassed to ask their care providers. So there's so many barriers that you've talked about here. But with regards to that now, so GSM, and we have this now bucket, and we have vaginal dryness coming in as your top question.
Shirley (17:15.722)
Hmm.
Kim (17:17.144)
What are the answers? So what is vaginal dryness? What causes or contributes to vulva vaginal dryness? And what are the questions that are coming from people?
Shirley (17:27.278)
Okay, so I want to answer that question, but I want to just first give you credit because a lot of the language that I use is from what I have learned by following the vagina coach and Kim Vobney. And when...
If we were going back to this place that you're, you know, we're going back in the timeline of menopause chicks, you would find physicians or lists on the internet talking about painful sex. And I don't use that.
phrase. That is not the first conversation we need to be having with women. We need to make sure that they're aware that what we're talking about here is making sure that we can all sit comfortably, move comfortably, dance, go to yoga, you know, enjoy penetrative sex if we choose with or without a partner. And that is like where I love to start this.
conversation because initially in the early days, right, doctors would, if they brought up the conversation, would say, do you have pain with sex? And sex meaning penis and vagina sex and it's not about that. So we've come, you and I have I think helped to bring our communities a long way in that dialogue and that language. Volva and vaginal dryness as we said is very common.
Shirley (18:58.912)
and hyaluronic acid is a naturally occurring molecule that our body makes on its own. It is not an ingredient that the beauty industry invented, even though the beauty industry started using hyaluronic acid as a key ingredient in their products in 2008, I believe. But hyaluronic acid, we make it on our own. It helps support the moisture in our eyes and our mouth and all of our skin and our joints and our vaginas.
Kim (19:08.544)
Hahaha
Shirley (19:27.792)
Another reason for vulva and vaginal dryness is the decline, the significant decline of estrogen that happens post menopause. So many women will be like, I'm fine, I'm okay, I didn't have any hot flashes, I didn't have any sleep disruption, I think I'm good, I exercise, I eat well. And then they may wake up, you know, post menopause, maybe that with that six year timeframe, maybe not till they're in their 60s or 70s.
and they're surprised to learn that decline of estrogen coupled with that decline of hyaluronic acid that probably started back in their 40s is really now impacting their quality of life and particularly the health of their vulva and vagina.
Kim (20:15.123)
Yeah, and so with the declines that you've talked about, hyaluronic acid and estrogen, it's not just the dryness, it's the vaginal pH. It increases urinary incontinence and frequency. And so again, kind of back to that term, it's great that we have this umbrella term, but people don't necessarily know that there are all these different influences that can be explained sometimes by similar mechanisms.
Shirley (20:25.324)
Yes.
Kim (20:45.011)
I guess I'll say, yeah. Yeah.
Shirley (20:45.238)
Yes, like UTIs.
Right. So really taking care of the health of our urethra. And I cannot ask your listeners enough. Go and find take what you've learned in this conversation today and share it with your mom or your grandmother or your older sisters, because somebody you know is suffering in silence. They might have a recurring UTI that they don't tell you about too many of our doctors appointments every year eaten up because of UTIs.
Shirley (21:19.044)
hyaluronic acid and or using localized hormone therapy.
Kim (21:23.423)
Yeah, yeah, and it's also, it's not kind of to the point I just made, but expanding on that is that it's not just about the dryness piece, it's about the health of the tissue as we age and preventing those infections, preventing incontinence from either starting or getting worse. So it's a proactive step. So what do you recommend that people do? When do you recommend people start paying attention to?
Shirley (21:50.966)
Today. Today, today. Start today. I mean, some of these conversations are bad news. Things like it does not get better with time, it will happen to every woman post-menopause. That is not really a lot of news that we wanna hear, right? But the good news is that...
Kim (21:51.116)
uh, vulva vaginal. Yes.
Kim (22:07.917)
Mm-hmm.
Shirley (22:10.602)
vulva and vaginal dryness can be both prevented and treated. So you talk a lot about the prevention strategies. I think we both kind of share that paradigm for health, like sexual energy, sending that energy to the pelvic floor helps for a certain amount of time to produce natural moisture. But if...
Kim (22:13.603)
Mm-hmm.
Shirley (22:33.498)
if penetrative sex or sexual activity is not comfortable, I am not suggesting that you do that. Regular pelvic floor exercise arguably should be at the top of my list. And moisturizing with hyaluronic acid is both a prevention and a treatment strategy.
And so those are like the first three things that I would explain to someone, generally speaking, if she is maybe in the late 40s, the last part of perimenopause, and really interested, keenly interested in preventing dryness, which was me, right? I didn't want to, like it's possible to turn a raisin back into a grape, but I was more interested in keeping a grape, a grape.
Kim (23:10.563)
Right. Yep.
Kim (23:19.095)
The grape.
Shirley (23:21.126)
Right? And then for, you know, that decline in estrogen that happens at menopause, there are many approved vaginal therapies for the treatment of vaginal dryness. Couple of caveats. One is, those therapies are for the vagina only. Many of them are creams or rings or suppositories that are for internal and ignore...
external, which is the vulva. So you still want to be able to moisturize. And the second part of that is that you will not get a prescription for a localized estrogen or DHEA therapy, generally speaking, unless the condition already exists. And that
is concerning for me because the last thing I want to do is to tell women, wait until you have dryness so that we can give you directions on how to reverse it. Makes no sense, so.
Kim (24:20.907)
Right, yeah, makes no sense. Yeah. So this information, this issue being the number one requested topic, led you also down a path of creating something because there really nothing existed that would help you and the people that were asking for help. So talk about how did that come to be? This, the product called Feel Amazing, so what was that path of...
Shirley (24:44.322)
Yeah.
Kim (24:50.531)
creating it.
Shirley (24:50.814)
Well, so Dr. Petra Stute, who is quite well known in the menopause space, she's done a lot of research on progesterone. She is a Swiss gynecologist and her and her research team studied hyaluronic acid in 2013 and the results of that study showed that hyaluronic acid was equally effective at treating vaginal dryness as estrogen therapy.
And that was really great news because for anyone that had, you know, maybe was undergoing breast cancer treatment and was told not to use an estrogen product, there was this. But then what happened was the International Society of Gynecologists and the North American Menopause Society adapted their recommendations and they told their physician members to recommend moisturizing with hyaluronic acid as the first line treatment.
And then we started to see hyaluronic acid being included in some of the over-the-counter moisturizers that you can buy. But the challenge with the products that were available on the market is that if you turn the package around, which I always tell my members to do and read the ingredient list, it's way down the list. So you don't even know like how much is there. And so I just went to my pharmacist colleagues and said like, what can we do?
have this group of women who want a solution and they compounded hyaluronic acid and vitamin E moisturizer and we let women in our community try it and then of course the women gave lots of feedback and lots of rave reviews and became quite popular that as you said it needed to be obviously rebranded but we first went through a Health Canada approval process so it is
which is the natural product number and it is marketed as feel amazing. Valva and vaginal moisturizer. I do too.
Kim (26:54.623)
Mm-hmm. And I use it myself and I do feel amazing when I use it. So how does it, so a lot of people hear the term hyaluronic acid and you mentioned the beauty industry has been using that and it's in many of the serums and creams and stuff that we see and somebody may look and say, oh well I already use a hyaluronic acid for my face, why can't I just use that? So what's the problem with taking something designed for the face and putting it on our vulva or vagina?
Shirley (27:10.501)
Yeah!
Shirley (27:20.37)
Well, two things don't ever put anything on your vulva and vagina that has not been approved or designed to be there. And the second thing is that those products that we use on our face or hands have other ingredients chemicals, you name it, that could disrupt the pH of our vagina, the mucus membrane. Yeah, don't do this has been specially formulated for vulva and vaginal use.
Existency of the gel has been designed by members of the menopause chicks community who like Didn't want to lay down that was one of the feedback one of the pieces of feedback We got is like I have this product But when I you know the instructions say I have to lay down every you know for an hour after I insert it I'm like well. That's because it's too runny Why don't we just make a gel that will stay where we put it and it does right so I get like I shower Get dry, you know
better put that in the right order. I shower, moisturize and get dressed right away every morning. Like it's just part of my regular, regular routine. But yes, do not use anything. And you know, I would say the same about eyes, right? So hyaluronic acid is also in eye drops. And you wouldn't put your skincare product in your eyes because it's not designed to be there. So the exact same thing applies for your vagina.
Kim (28:24.349)
Yeah.
Kim (28:43.415)
Right, and it can be used internally and externally. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love it. I recommend people use it all the time. I recommend that people, as you said, it's not something we're waiting for a symptom to show up and then that indicates that I should start using it. We have a vulva and vagina and that means we start using it now, today.
Shirley (28:46.658)
correct.
Shirley (28:53.163)
Thank you.
Shirley (29:04.318)
And skin is skin. And we moisturize our skin. So, yeah.
Kim (29:08.735)
Yeah, yeah, we spend a lot of time and effort taking care of the skin on our face and not so much for the rest of our body. I had a really interesting email today from a person who had joined my Buff Muff Challenge last month and she for June and she did not start it. And I have a couple of follow up emails that go to people, you know, asking, you know, how did you enjoy it? What were your results kind of thing? And she responded to one of those and she said, I haven't I haven't done it because.
I'm just afraid and there's something holding me back and I feel like it's another thing that is I need to improve myself on the need to improve myself list. And I thought that was such a very, I'd never heard anybody put it that way. And so my response back to her, she said, any tips that would help me get going for this next month? And I came back to her and I said, you're right.
We, you know, especially as we're going through this perimenopause, menopause transition, there, it's a lot, it's a lot of change and we need to spend more time and energy, maybe adjusting our diet, maybe adjusting our skincare, paying attention to pelvic health, you know, alcohol, caffeine, like so many things and often it's like a take this off your list, take this off your list, take, we have to remove all of these, we have to give up so much stuff.
And it requires more work for us to overcome some of these things that are maybe bothersome. And so I said, I get it. Like I've always prided myself of being somebody who's very low maintenance, very easygoing, very this. And now I feel like I'm definitely high maintenance. And that being said, I also it's like it's like a car. It's like our house as things age. It requires some maintenance. It requires some repairs. It requires some enhancements. And we our bodies are the same.
And so rather than viewing it as I need to fix myself because I've done something wrong, it's I have this opportunity to maintain or even improve this amazing house, car, structure, body, whatever I have. And it's not your fault because you didn't know these things. Our healthcare system isn't set up to be that way. But also think about taking pride in the fact that we have this opportunity to put self-care.
Kim (31:25.491)
at the top of the list. Yeah, it's not a punishment. It's not because you've done something wrong. It's not because you're not good enough. It's because you are good enough and you deserve this care, right?
Shirley (31:25.666)
Yeah.
Shirley (31:37.538)
Oh, so, so true. I mean, so many analogies too. Like, do you ever walk by your plants and go, oh, I can't believe you want water again. We don't treat our plants like that. We don't talk to them in that tone. We, if we're going away on vacation, we ask, okay, so this is, that would go sideways if you're asking somebody else to moisturize your vagina. But like your plants need water. And so you just know that if you were going to be a plant owner,
Kim (31:42.2)
Mm-hmm.
Kim (31:50.531)
Totally. Yep.
Shirley (32:07.126)
that you are going to take care of your plant. And that's the same thing that we're talking about. Probably though in the work that you and I are doing, we're at sort of this midway point. Like I don't know for sure, but you know I have a nearly 20 year old daughter. And I hope that because she's growing up with the moisturizer vagina.com floating around the house, that maybe her and her friends will just understand that is part of my future.
Kim (32:29.676)
Ha ha ha!
Shirley (32:37.102)
And most of the women that you and I talk to on a daily basis, maybe that person that wrote the email to you this morning, they're learning about it for the first time and there's a little bit of a surprise element in it for them and they already have full plates. So I recognize that and we're trying to like get in there and get to the top of the list. But when we do that, when we get to the top of the list, it does save you a lot of time and anguish in the long run.
Kim (33:03.379)
Yeah, yeah. And I do think, as you mentioned about your daughter and our younger generations, I have two boys, but they've definitely seen vulvas and vaginas around the house for their whole life pretty much. And so if the seed is being planted, and actually just the other day, a friend of mine asked for a recommendation for her daughter for pelvic floor physio. And I said, amazing that you're taking her. And I said, sidebar, you would benefit from seeing them as well. But also plant the seed that this is.
Shirley (33:12.698)
Exactly.
Shirley (33:24.18)
and
Kim (33:32.491)
This is like going to the dentist. This is just, this is something that we can empower ourselves with for caring for our bodies, for our lives. And the sooner that seed is planted and the more of this like preventive mindset stuff that we can implement along the way, it doesn't seem so insurmountable. It doesn't seem like we have to quote unquote, improve ourselves so much if we wait. Does that make sense? Yeah.
Shirley (33:34.082)
The dentist, yeah.
Shirley (33:56.394)
Totally, yeah. I mean, we're changing paradigms and it's going in the right direction.
Kim (34:00.083)
Yeah, it takes some time. Yeah, yeah. So to kind of come and wrap things up, one thing that we won't go into here, but I wanna make sure that I address and direct people to is your hormone class, because that is another huge, huge topic. So we've talked about vaginal estrogen and hyaluronic acid, it's two things, but there's also the hormone piece, and the world is also not just exploding about menopause, but about hormone therapy and...
And so that's a huge topic and I know you have a masterclass so I will link to that in the show notes. So without like again I don't that could be a whole other podcast episode we could we can I think we should do that but as a whole. So from that major question of vaginal dryness we've talked about that. What would you say are your other two to three top asked questions or top pieces of advice that you provide to your community.
Shirley (34:35.172)
Thank you.
Shirley (34:56.522)
Well, thank you for talking about hormone therapy before we can even have, like we as a society, to have a conversation about hormone therapy. And I think this is one of the biggest gaps in women's health is we must learn the roles and responsibilities of our hormones when our cycles are regular.
Once we know the roles and responsibilities of estrogen and progesterone, probably the two I talk about the most, but also cortisol is in there, thyroid is in there, even learning the you know, vitamin D, we hear about vitamin D, but do we actually know what it does when we have optimal levels? So that's really key, then we can make a plan.
for when those hormones are not being produced at the same quality and quantity as they once were. So that's like the big part of what I talk about. And then in addition to that, I would say, I teach women how to stay curious because it's really important that we don't throw everything into the menopause bucket or the bucket of menopause symptoms. We do have to consider other lifestyle factors, other stress factors. And obviously, every time we have
Kim (36:00.843)
Mm-hmm.
Shirley (36:10.496)
conversation about our health, it's overlapped with other things that are going on. Caring for aging parents, divorce, grief, you know the list is goes on for infinity. And the third thing that I would say that I've not spoken publicly about too much recently and that is go tell someone else. So a lot of
members come to the menopause chicks community and probably come to the vagina coach community as well, and they've worked up enough Confidence to ask their question and get an answer for their body But I think the information flow often stops there Because there's still sort of I mean, it's not a backyard barbecue conversation all the time unless you and I are there
Kim (36:56.202)
Mm-hmm.
Kim (37:03.029)
Unless you're friends with us, yeah.
Shirley (37:06.862)
And so I'm worried that I, yeah, sure, we're reaching lots of people every day, all day long, but I'm worried that we're not actually giving every woman the tools that she needs to go and talk to her mother, her sister, her daughter about these topics. And so I've started to use the line lately, someone you know needs this information.
Kim (37:32.748)
Mm-hmm.
Shirley (37:34.106)
just as a hopefully an incentive to start spreading the word even more. Because you said, you know, the conversation, it's happening a lot more now, but I still know that there's that woman right now listening to this who just, you know, reoccurring UTI vaginal dryness doesn't feel as well as doesn't feel amazing yet. Right. And we have to remind every woman that we deserve that.
Kim (37:55.383)
Mm-hmm.
Kim (38:01.407)
Yeah, such a perfect way to end. Thank you for your time today, but also thank you for creating such an incredible community and for including me as part of your guest experts. Yeah, I love being part of it. I love the work that we do together and the collaboration that happens and in our nature walks that we do sometimes because we live so close to each other.
Shirley (38:14.058)
I couldn't do it without you, Kim.
Shirley (38:26.035)
Awesome.
Kim (38:26.795)
So thank you and all the show notes will be listed for your website where people can reach you. And of course, I wanna highlight that the masterclass and the sleep information that you have as well. So everybody can get their help. Thank you so much.
Shirley (38:36.526)
OK. Thank you.
