kim_vopni (00:02.98)
hi catherine thank you so much for joining me welcome to between two lips happy to have you of course you had reached out to me on instagram we follow one another in social media and and you are now you're on a mission because of your own personal journey with regards to public health and pro lapse and i would love to learn a little bit more about your story so maybe we'll start there just tell us a little bit about you and what got you to where you are now
catherine (00:09.106)
you're welcome thank you for having me
catherine (00:33.566)
okay so my name is catherine i'm the host of the podcast me myself my vagina and basically my prolapse was the inspiration for my podcast so i had a little girl she's not so little now she's seven after i had her is probably about two years after i had her i'd noticed something wasn't quite right with my vagina with my revolver i had a bolder
a lump i felt a heaviness but i didn't have any pain or discomfort and i wasn't incontinent and it was one of those things i thought yet i'm going to get sorted out on the doctor i'll go to the d p but when you have a child you just never get around to other things take priority and it wasn't until i had my smear test and the nurse was like oh if you got any gun problems and i was like oh well no not really but i've noticed like a bit of a bold so i couldn't really tell you exactly
when i noticed it it was something that happened over time and i just said something that d been meaning to kind of get checked out and she's like well obviously i can't do that for you here so because appointment so i had to smooth test i went to the g p and she basically told me that i had a prolapse of the pelvic organ and it kind of turned my world upside down if i'm honest i knew very little about prolapseis the only thing i knew about
naively i associated them with old people so only old people get relapses it doesn't happen to young people i never even thought about having a baby would kind of relate to that and then from there it just kind of spiral cause i was like when i was told you just kind of think oh my god my virgin is going to fall out like what do i do now and i was then thinking i can't be the only person to kind of feel that way and i had so many questions i felt quite love
kim_vopni (02:06.14)
hm
catherine (02:34.206)
um i didn't really know where to go i've been told by the g p that i'd had a like i had a prolapse and then from there i got into the physiotherapy be obviously there's quite a long wait i think that was around november time and it wasn't until the february that i actually started my physio and during that time you just kind of feel i you're on your own you're just kind of left and you're waiting for that letter to come through so the journey
other prolapse has been very like up and down you know i had some good days i had some bad days but that was really why i was thinking i just can't be the only person to go through this and to have very little information about it because i think when you become pregnant you have a lot of information about becoming pregnant during pregnancy but you don't really get anything about afterwards and i wish i knew more i think that's changing now i think there's been a definite improvement but at the time i had kind of nothing to go with really
and so it was a bit of a roller coaster in that way and it affected me i am personal trainer as well and i've done preimpostnatal but again there was been no real information about pelvic floor or i think when i left hospital i was kind of told two things she said don't forget about contraception and i was like i've just had a baby like that's not going to happen and then they said older your pelvic floor and was like
yeah no problem i know what to do but i think a lot of women think they know how to do their public floor but i don't think we really do until we guided with it and i didn't really do it i mean you know it's one of those things you think yeah i've got to do but i never really like never did never obviously my opinion of that has very much changed since what i've learned from my journey and so it was just kind of because of that and then during my physio
kim_vopni (04:07.6)
hm
kim_vopni (04:19.079)
hm
catherine (04:34.406)
i was basically told i couldn't run and running is really important to me mentally physically and then that was taken away and i would say my prolapse probably affected me more mentally than it did physically if that makes sense
kim_vopni (04:47.38)
yeah that's a super common super common experience
catherine (04:52.306)
yeah because i don't really i don't i think i'm lucky in a sense when it comes to my prolix because i don't really have any pain discomfort i'm not in continent it's just more about the actual bold and the heaviness and even now i've had i've gone through my physio and even now i would say i'm very much aware when i've over done it and i know where then i need to have either rest day or change what i do from an exercise point of view as well so i think
through my own journey i've educated myself more about pro lapses
kim_vopni (05:25.32)
yeah what kind of polyps do you have
catherine (05:29.186)
i was told i've got a preduptwith big organ
kim_vopni (05:31.34)
and did they tell you whether it was blood or uterus rectum okay okay and sorry go ahead
catherine (05:35.986)
no not as far as i remember now that a sorry i was going a say that's one thing i have made so it was because i quite quite a while ago since i had my initial physio so i'm on a bit of a mission now so i've made a decision that every year i'm going to book in with a physio just to kind of main maintain an obviously becaus i suppose now it was all through self maintenance i haven't had any surgery i haven't had any
kind of intervention in that way it's all been about kind of self mentments and public floor exercise and breathing and positioning so i'm just conscious i suppose of what could happen like later on if i don't look after it now
kim_vopni (06:20.48)
yeah and i think so you just to back track you you had your baby and it was as you say a couple of years then you had your pap smear and then they the nurse was asking questions then you go and get the official diagnosis but during the time between when that happened and then when you started physio and when it was recommended that you stopped running were you were you still exercising during that time yeah
catherine (06:47.226)
yeah yeah so basically i can't really i don't think anyone has been able to pin point the reason why i got a pro lap so i was in a twenty four hour labor i had pisa to me i also had forceps which i know can relate to prolapsis being a fitness instructor as where i taught classes so i don't know whether i went back too soon after having my baby i was very conscious about when i did go back and you know reduced
reduce the weights reduced kind of my movement but i don't know whether that kind of all incorporated to it but because i had very little knowledge i kind of just carried on rightly or wrongly i don't know but i suppose it because i wasn't feeling any pain or i wasn't bleeding i didn't have any kind of signs like that so i kind of just would probably use those as more of warning so if that did happen and i think i would be more likely to have stopped exercise
kim_vopni (07:44.78)
yeah and the challenge with with prolapse is it is something that really we're not told about as you mentioned early in prenatal education or even through out our life's lifetime when we're learning about bodies and minstral health and all that we aren't we just aren't told anything about the pelvic health really and then when we get this diagnosis and especially when we see people who say you can't do this and you can't do this and you can't do this that's the hardest part when we have all of these things that have brought us joy removed from our life and then the mental
thought of how do i carry on how am i going to be able to exercise how am i going to be able to do this and that's the biggest challenge but from the time when you were you started having some symptoms you said not pain but you were kind of like no something feels a little off but you carried on and you know you have said was rightly or wrongly we will never know there were so many things that contribute to the development of prolapse we can never pin point this was the exact cause of why you got it in
there's a lot of people that carry on with they carry a lot of guilt and resentment and anger and all of that emotion is part of that roller coaster that we're on right and and then we don't know what questions to ask and we don't it's all this uncertainty that that kind of halts us and stops us in our tracks but really the point i'm trying to make is you carried on you were doing your exercise and you did all the things that we're bringing you joy until somebody said that you need
to stop and so i'm interested now at that point when they said to stop you said that kind of halted you and then how did you get back to your personal trainer you have to incorporate that into your client work and then what did you do from your own fitness perspective as well
catherine (09:31.486)
so basically i had quite a quite a negative experience with my physio but also had a very good experience i had two physios basically the first one was very much like you got to stop running that you she wouldn't really give me any kind of help with that she just took it away from me and i was like i don't think you realize what you've done here by taking that running away from me like fitness is important to me and you've all now i don't know what
do to replace that and she showed no empathy towards me either during our appointment so i remember she was talking about sex once and she's like are you having sex and i was like like no like who would want to go down you know that's not going to happen i don't feel in the right frame to have sex anywhere but i don't want anybody going near me and i think i was on the contraceptive pill and she's like all right to get you like basically sex drive because i'd lost my sex drive as well
and she said oh you just need to kind of get back on it and i was like what does that like what does that mean like she wasn't really helpful in that way yet on the flip side then i had three sessions with her and then i had three sessions with another another physio she was the complete opposite she showed me so much empathy she knew running was important to me she knew about the job that i did and she knew that my ultimate goal would be to get back to running and she was just so much more right this is our plan
this is what we're going a do these he exercises we're going follow if you feel something s not quite it if you feel bleeding or anything like that to the exercise is just tone it down a little bit so i had a lot of more guidance from her and i think that's kind of what i needed so i was able to take her guidance to my own work my own i was walking a big thing for me was and i still say to this day like never underestimate the power of a good walk because just going out because i think obviously running you're going out
it's a bit of a stress relief but even though running i was going outside i was walking i was with my daughter in the buggy and things like that so a kind of incorporated walking rather than running which got me outside which i kind of felt so much better for doing and in regard to me when i was kind of with my clients i was just very self aware of what i could do and i told my clients about my limitations and obviously that wouldn't stop me from training someone it just meant that i couldn't necessarily kind of lift the same weight
catherine (12:00.706)
they were doing and with being a personal trainer it's not about my fitness anyway it's about theirs but so i think from the advice that my second physio gave me it was a lot more structured it was a lot more it this is our plan this is where we're going to get to but obviously we need to just take it step by step and i think that's the important thing to say is your recovery journey my recovery journey was just say up and down you have really good days you have bad days but it was important to really listen to your body so when you kind of think
brilliant everything kind of feels like it's moving properly it was how i felt the next day which i thought i was important so if i felt that there was a heaviness i knew that i've done a little bit too much so i wouldn't i would have a rest day or i would walk so far i was really kind of like home into how my body was feeling or if it was like oh okay tike that feels quite comfortable maybe i can now kind of push it to the next level and i think it has i would say i'm actually fitting
now than i've ever been ironically and in a way that was down to my prolapse because i've been able to learn the journey because i think what was hard for me is before having my emily my child i ve run amarithans i've lifted way you know i've done i class myself as been quite a fit person and all of a sudden i'm back to square one again like having to kind of learn how to exercise again i suppose but then in the
i said no but i can do this like this should be easy i've done this before why am i now struggling to lift five k where i normally i can lift ten to entice and i think that for me was what i had to kind of get used to and accept and that's quite a hard acceptance i think when you're so used to exercise and so used to pushing your body over more boundaries and all of a sudden you're kind of having kind of draw it back and start to kind of from scratch again
kim_vopni (13:45.24)
hm
kim_vopni (13:53.84)
right did anybody mention a pessary to you or do you do you use a pessary
catherine (14:00.826)
i don't use a pastry no and no one's ever kind of suggested one to me i make the assumption that that's because i'm assume my physio would have mentioned something like that in the early stages and i think this is why i want to go back to a physio to make sure that i'm doing the things that i should be doing and just kind of monitor it but no i haven't used a pessary
kim_vopni (14:23.52)
yeah you know i totally agree with your logic and it's something that i've been saying for years two is that an annual check up with a pelvic physio in my opinion is it should be standard of care when we think of the attention we place to our oral health by you know brushing lossing seeing the dentist once or twice a year and we've been doing that since we were young and we do that even if we have no toothache or symptoms of anything going wrong we just go because we're supposed to go
a check up right to catch things before they become major problems and i think we should be doing that same thing with our pelvic health so i completely applaud that and totally support the notion of checking in checking in once a year how is everything going and because we also go through hormonal fluctuations we all will approach menopause we will all go through menopause we'll reach menopause and then become post menopause and have huge changes to our hormones that kind of influence
catherine (14:55.886)
yeah
kim_vopni (15:23.36)
or pelvic floor so why should we be waiting until we have these problems that we need to overcome that that maybe could have been less or not even problems at all if we had the information earlier
catherine (15:37.866)
i totally agree with that so when i obviously had emily had the midwives come round or the health visitors obviously because i had a psotomysorry they checked my stitts and they just said that everything looks normal so i just made the assumption that that's kind of how i meant to look now because obviously i've had eight pound twelve baby i've had four sets you know i just kind of thought that this might be my new normal if that makes sense and i guess
i suppose ve time then i started to my product started to get more pronounced and i was kind of noticing it more but i so wish that i had at that stage that early stage to someone to have that her because it's something that we don't get on the n h s and it's really it's what i found it kind of strange was obviously when you then get into you've seen your g p the ore in the system suddenly this world just opens up you know where i live there was a whole unit that is literally connected to women's health
and i was like i never knew this existed and it's if i only just knew that was there earlier i could would have made the most of it and it's just so so bizarre i think that's why with my podcast it's a bit like people need to know this people need to know that this service is available privately with the n h s but it is their support is there but people just don't talk about it i think talking about virgins revolvers is a little bit of a taboo subject
i think it has got better over time but i think the improvement still need to be like there's still areas of improvement but the more we speak about it more we raises awareness more people are going to have have that understanding i mean i don't want to scare people and say oh yeah it's going o happen to everybody after a baby because because it doesn't but it is common it's one in three i think the statistics are to get some level of of prolapse so why aren't we talking more about it i just don't i just don't get
kim_vopni (17:34.5)
yeah yeah i completely agree and that's part of i think when when people are faced with that diagnosis there's almost an anger or a feeling like their body has let them down but then they also think of all the care practitioners they would have seen along their journey in pregnancy and not one of those people mentioned it to them so then there's a bit of anger and resentment on that side as well too and thinking these services exist and it's quite costly to our health care system to have to treat these
catherine (17:47.226)
yeah
kim_vopni (18:04.32)
so why are we not stepping in from a prevention perspective and giving more education more exercise more resources to people a way ahead like why are we not thinking preventively so u that seems like it's what your experience was as well to so how did you kind of move past that then so you you got the information you were told by one to do nothing and you were told by another you were given a plan um so that
catherine (18:24.686)
yeah
kim_vopni (18:34.34)
sort of just that in of itself makes a huge change to the mental side of things you have an option you have hope you can move forward you can can can can instead of cant cant cant so how did you move from there what sort of exercises did your physio give you like what what was your plan to be able to get back to doing the things that you wanted to do
catherine (18:41.566)
yeah
catherine (18:47.486)
m
catherine (18:57.126)
um it was very obviously it was basic starting off with a basic understanding of perfect floor how to actually engage your pelvic floor focusing on the breathing when to relax your pelvic floor as well and then from there we took those into exercises such as squat such as lounges and it's all about your postural position as well nd i mean i mean i'm quite lucky because of my fitness background had a little bit i suppose i have a little bit more of an understanding than the average a woman that potentially could come through
the system so i think she was able to push me a little bit more if that makes sense because of the knowledge that i had but it was very much yeah i always engaged a lot slower that's one thing i found really hard because i've always been if i'm not sweating i haven't worked out and then it's like oh hold on a minute we're now really taken it down to the basic level but i've got to do these exercises a lot slower so i can really feel what's going on
kim_vopni (19:45.0)
uh uh
catherine (19:57.006)
sure i'm drawing up making sure my i'm in kind of correct position i'm thinking about my breathing so i think it was re educating my body and re educating myself i think you're right when it comes for me it was more the mental health side of it so i felt broken like my body had let me down and i actually had counseling so that kind of through the counselling
the exercise that's how i kind of where my recovery journey was so i didn't just focus on the physical side of it i needed the counseling as well and that was for a lot of things because i think you think because a way you kind of your body is amazing you've suddenly know you've grown a baby you've been able to kind of whether it was naturally or through censarians actually you you have a baby your body just copse with it but all of a sudden now it felt that it let me down because it's stopping me from doing the things that i've wanted to do and that was quite hot
to get my head around if i'm onest and then i don't real want to have sex i don't and then if i it's just a lot of quite emotional attachment to it i think i think i detach myself if i once emotionally from quite a lot of things so that's why i think the counseling for me really works i think for me when i talk about my relapse i do it is about the physical recovery but i'd really say to people as well it's like if you feel that you need to speak to someone from like a counselor from that point of view i would always always advocate
it's even nest
kim_vopni (21:27.44)
yeah i totally agree so where are you now with your exercise what does your what does a week of exercise look like for you
catherine (21:36.446)
i would say i'm back to normal and beyond if i'm honest so i'm back to run in five case sorry ten case and i'm actually i've achieved a personal best in that i run it under an hour now which i never did before so for me a normal day i run twice a week and then i i teach body pump and i teach circuit sorry spin i swim
i also then do kind of like half an hour weight exercises because obviously with family you don't really have i think what i've appreciated and understood like before emily it was like right i'm not in the gym for two hours i haven't got to work out like you know i've got all this time i can do think realistically i wasn't using that time effectively now it's like right okay i've got forty five minutes half an hour but i'm so much more pacific about what i do within those trainings i feel like get more now
out of those shorter sessions than i did in my two hour session so it's really changed my logic of how i train as well and i think for the better
kim_vopni (22:42.94)
yeah you mentioned you said you're you're fitter now than you were before and i hear that from a lot of people when they they may get side lined with some whether it's prolapse or whether it's chronic back pain or whether it's in continents and they go through pelviclurphysio they start to do pelvicclor muscle training dynamically as you've been doing they sort of re train that system and progressively loaded and then they get back to where they were but they surpass it now that the optimizing the way the pelvic floor works it is part of it
the foundation of our core and when we have more capacity for power there it opens up doors for power in all of the other things that we do so that's amazing for you congratulations
catherine (23:24.106)
thank you i'm still very when it comes to my weight training or strength training i would say i'm still very i'm very technique conscious because i'm very aware of potential cause obviously there's ways that i don't want to say fear but when you've worked so hard it's like injury isn't it doesn't have to necessarily be a prolapse but you've worked so hard to recover red to get to kind of the improvement the last thing you want to do is kind of drop yourself back to those low stages so i'm very much i'm conscious i do lift quite heavy weight
but i'm very aware that i don't kind of put too much on if that makes sense you know its focus on technique and i prefer and that's what kind of said a lot of people as well it's not always about the weight that you live is about how you do it get the technique right and then you can start to incorporate more more weight it hasn't it certainly hasn't put me off exercising because i think for some women when they're told they've got proatslkeoh my god that's it like it can work
the way i think where they can go i don't wanta do anything and that's probably scared the unsure what they should be doing and there is kind of that line isn't there that once you've had your physio and you you've kind of so the i had successions think maybe had slightly more but it's around six to eight sessions and you kind of let it like you've had your sessions it's a bit like oh like off you go kind of thing and i think that time is quite daunting when you've finished your physio the exercise is becoming a bit too easy but you're not quite sure
and yourself how to progress it so i think from there my advice would be for an you body to either booking with a physio who either is sorry not physio personal trainer who is specialized in prempostnat or pelvic floor health and just kind of get some guidance from there but also every six months every year make sure that you go back to your physio or a new physio just to kind of just make sure things are ticking over really because it's i don't really know what i'm looking for if you know i'm not
i'm not medically trained in that way so i know that if something doesn't look right or feel right but i wouldn't quite know then part from the exercise that i've been given whether that would be the right thing or do i need epssory or you know what would be the next kind of advice really
kim_vopni (25:34.62)
right
yeah and isn't it amazing you being a personal trainer may being a personal trainer i taken many different certifications and just even the basic personal training where you learn about all the muscles in the body and their mechanism of action and the you know insertion and origin and all the stuff why did we not learn about the pelvic floor it is this whole group of muscles that was completely eliminated that i would argue is the most important and yeah it's shocking and so now there's finally
catherine (25:58.626)
yeah
catherine (26:04.446)
definitely absolutely
kim_vopni (26:07.28)
there's there's courses certification so my former business partners and i had created a course in twenty thirteen u and that was one of the it was definitely the first in canada it was i don't know if it was the first overall but then along the way came other courses and now there are the really are there's kind of a handful of really high quality courses to help people who are working in a fitness or movement capacity even kirepractors massage therapist non pelvic floor
physical therapist this information is essential in my opinion for people who are working in a body capacity and whether that's your hands on with somebody or whether your prescribing movement to them i just think that i get the information it's not in your basic certification yet hopefully that will happen one day but there are definitely other courses you can take to heighten your knowledge
catherine (27:03.746)
yeah i totally agree with that and i so wish again that i knew and even with the pre imposed natal part of the training that i did it wasn't really about pelvic floor is obviously it's about the how the baby grows how what exercise you should be shudn't be doing but i think it's information that we do and i think that's in a way it sounds weird but in a way i'm kind of thankful that i have had this experience because it has taught me so much about myself as well as my body
and what my body can go through and how it can heal but is also changed my way of thinking to and it's very much something that i'd always speak to my clients about it and i know sometimes they look at you a bit funny because you're talking about like virgins and revolvers butobviously in the right terms i don't think it still has that to be subject a little bit and people are embarrassed to talk about you know this sort of thing and and we shouldn't be because it is just part of women's health you know
and fifty percent of the population women so you know it's it's going to affix and that's why i didn't quite understand that i felt so i felt so alone but i was like how can i be alone if that makes sense i'm not the only one to have had a baby yet i don't know and sometimes going on like obviously you've got or google and then you're like oh my god everything is going to fall out if that's what it looks like it's just you don't really want you want to go to obviously the s or professional bod
so that you can kind of have crevaability in what they have got on their websites as wel becaus i think as well you can get really lost and i think that's another thing that if you do spend your time going through all different different websites from different people you you then kind of get a bit of a misunderstanding as well so i think education wise it's really important definitely to have these conversations but even started young i don't know why we don't talk about it in schools
kim_vopni (29:01.0)
we should be we're talking about menstration we're talking about sexual wellness we're talking about bodies again kind of like the personal training course why are we leaving out this essential part of the body and that does is influenced by menstral cycles is influenced by pregnancy knowing that the majority of women do become pregnant at some point in their life that it is influenced by hormonal fluctuations and menopause like it just a thousand percent should be taught in schools it really should
catherine (29:31.646)
i think even the basics just about how we refer to it like the volva vagina rather than and i think i'm very much because of what my what's happened i'm very open to the with my daughter and we do call it vagina so but we know exactly what she's talking about you know it stops all this uncertainty and it's just it's not a rude word it's not a rude word like so why exactly let's let's call it
kim_vopni (29:57.12)
no it's a body part
catherine (30:01.466)
it is and everyone knows exactly what you're talking about and that's my opinion again about periods she's too young to actually understand why thank god i haven't had that conversation i'm not quite ready yet but she's walked in on me changing a towel and she got really watched like her mom you're bleeding and i was like no no no it's okay like women you're do it one day once a month will bleed is okay i just need to wear a nap like you did when you were like little she's like k and she
it was kind of like enough information but it has bitten me on the bum because we've been into like super market and we're just walk in and then at the top of your voice like mommy do you need your mommy mommy napps and i'm like no no no i'm all right thank you because i don't really know what to call so i just call them like mommy napes so she's got an understanding enough to kind of cure you know but obviously i haven't got into too much detail but again it's just starting from a young age i think sometimes we are embarrassed to have that
kim_vopni (30:42.28)
a
kim_vopni (30:46.96)
i think it's great yeah
catherine (31:01.406)
conversations but i think generation it's changing if that makes sense which i think is really positive
kim_vopni (31:05.12)
yeah
kim_vopni (31:08.28)
yeah yeah so a couple more questions before we leave have you tried or have you heard of hypopressives
catherine (31:18.046)
no i haven't
kim_vopni (31:18.14)
okay so i'll just plant the seed that hypopressives is a it's an exercise technique that has sort of woven its way into the world of pelvic so it i wouldn't say that it wasn't intended is that to start with but it has provided possibility for some people to be able to eliminate pro lap symptoms some people have been able to improve their prolapse depends a little bit on the type of prolapse you have and how advanced it is but it is a tech
catherine (31:21.666)
okay
kim_vopni (31:48.14)
there's another episode i have i think it's episode two or three where i talk about that technique as well so i just wanted to plant that seed for you it is something that could be potentially a tool in your tool box and then my last question or comment is you've you've mentioned a couple of things such as referring to counseling seeing a pelvitflor physio once a year what would you say to others who are they've received a prolapse diagnosis they're not sure how to move forward what advice would you give to them
catherine (32:19.686)
um just you're not on your own i think is the biggest thing it can be quite scary it can be quite daunting but just take your just take each day as it comes if you need to reach out to people there are people that you can reach out to obviously if you're going from the n h s i appreciate that might be a slower process than if you go privately counseling there is counseling available
but i suppose it's about speaking to people like yourself qualified even i mean i'm not quali kind of feel like i'm a bit of a bridge between between being a mom but also having my fitness experience but also like the kind of guide people where they could go but you've got to feel comfortable with a person that you're talking to as well and i think this is where just kind of spreading awareness about poles proctor health pelvic floor help in general as well and i think as well as like
you kind of feel that you don't want to have sex it's like i got does that make me does that mean i'm not human any more like will that ever come back will that change so i think all these kind of worries is probably is worth writing writing down all these questions that you have because when you go into your physio you kind of forget about everything and for me personally naively i wasn't expecting internal physio if i'm honest i thought as soon as they mentioned pelvic floor be like they will
look at you they will twist you a bit put you kind of put your body in position like tilt your pelvis forward and back and the next thing you know it's like oh like okay we kind of this is what we're doing which obviously i've got permission you know there was permission there it wasn't kind of inappropriate anything like that but i think it's just all of those questions that you have now totally gone out the window so there are questions that you kind of think you have just kind of not write them down and don't feel embarrassed by it if i'm honest
kim_vopni (33:54.02)
yeah
kim_vopni (33:59.0)
yeah
catherine (34:20.006)
and i think people do feel embarrassed sometimes particularly if there are in continent and it's not i it's nothing to be ashamed about you know i think it's just going reaching out to the right people but just knowing that their support out there
kim_vopni (34:37.159)
so i had to clear my throat and i was meeting myself there but yeah that's i love that i think that's a great place to end i really appreciate your sharing your story and your thoughts and for the work that you're doing to advocate for increased awareness and exposure about this about pelvic health especially prolapse so all the links to your your social media and your podcast will be listed below and thank you again so much
catherine (34:41.486)
m
catherine (35:04.386)
perfect thank you for having me
