Kim Vopni (00:00.6)
soundproofed yet, but okay. All right, ready, here we go.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (00:02.684)
Sounds good.
Kim Vopni (00:04.522)
Andrea Donsky, welcome. I'm excited to have you here. I feel like you should have been on the podcast a long time ago, but you weren't. But I'm glad you weren't because your new book has recently come out and I'm excited that we're here to talk about it. So congratulations to you on the launch of your new book and welcome. I would love for you to introduce yourself. Who are you? What got you into this world of perimenopause and nutrition and all the things that you share so incredibly online?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (00:32.796)
Thank you. Well, first all, thank you. And yes, we should have definitely done this a long time ago, but timing is everything. So thank you for having me on and discussing my new book, which is amazing. And so who am I? Well, my name is Andrea. I'm a nutritionist for more than 20 years. I've been a health and wellness living advocate for 26 years. So a really, really long time. I had my own struggles with digestive issues back in my 20s, and that led me to go back to school to learn nutrition.
And then when I got my first hot flash at the age of 47, I thought I was a menopause. I knew absolutely nothing about perimenopause, menopause. And I thought, okay, well, considering at that point I had been in health and wellness for 17 years and I teach other people how to understand and what to, you know, when it comes to our bodies, to listen to our bodies. And I knew nothing, absolutely nothing, zero zilch.
And I thought, I think I need to start going down some rabbit holes to understand this phase of life because if I know nothing, then I'm guessing so many other women know nothing about it. And that led me to really start understanding menopause. I mean, I had had so much experience from nutrition and lifestyle and everything that I had kind of learned up to that point. But as you know, and as your listeners know, things change now. What we knew before isn't necessarily what's going to work for us right now, right? Everything is changing and shifting.
Kim Vopni (01:48.462)
You
Andrea Donsky, RHN (01:51.408)
So I thought, OK, I really need to relearn a lot of what I was doing so that I could feel better myself and also I could teach other people, because that's my biggest passion, is that when I learn something, I share it with everybody else. And that's what led me to write the book. And I'm like, OK, have all these years of experience and knowledge under my belt. I might as well put it into a book because it is like my life's work. So find it in the book.
Kim Vopni (02:14.187)
Yeah. Yeah. So the book title is Nourishing Menopause, which is powerful nutrition. Well, not which is I added that in Nourishing Menopause, powerful nutrition and lifestyle tips to feel your best, which they sell strategies. Sorry. Pardon me. And sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you. I what I love about that title is nourishing is a word that I.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (02:26.29)
Lifestyle strategies, yes, to feel your best. It's amazing.
Kim Vopni (02:39.891)
I never thought about food and what I put in my body as nourishment before. It was just, I'm hungry, I'm going to eat something. I gave no thought to what am I consuming and why am I consuming that.
And the word nourishment, when I started to go through my own health, whatever journey, perimenopause transition that I had no idea what the hell was going on, nourishment became something that word meant so much more and still means so much more. And I absolutely love it. I love that you chose that word. Why did you choose that word? What does nourishing mean to you?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (03:12.742)
Thank you. Well, first of all, thank you. And I love it too. And it's really about nourishing. So nourishing, we associate with ingredients and nutrients with our food. But really, the book is about nourishing our body, mind and soul. And there's so much more when it comes to being nourished and nourishing ourselves at this point, because up to this point, we are so good at nourishing everybody else and taking care of everyone else. So this book is about nourishing yourself from that body, mind and soul perspective.
Kim Vopni (03:24.023)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (03:33.463)
Yes.
Kim Vopni (03:39.917)
Yeah, I love that. And as you say, it's not just about the food, it's about all the things that we do, the self-care, the mental health, like everything that we do. Amazing. I can't wait for the world to read it.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (03:47.44)
everything.
Kim Vopni (03:54.573)
I want to start out, have, I first really learned about you. I found you online several years ago and it was as I was starting this research for myself, not knowing what the heck was happening, I didn't know the term perimenopause. Now, when I look back, it's very clear what was happening was part of this menopause transition or perimenopause. Can you, from a definition perspective, talk a little bit about what...
perimenopause is, what menopause is, how we distinguish between the two.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (04:25.22)
Yeah, absolutely. Now perimenopause is a newer year, a newer word. So I didn't know about it either. And that's what so like so many of us did not know. Nowadays, it's so great because on social media, you have algorithms that are pushing it out to women who are in their mid 30s and older. And so they're not in the same position as we were that when we were going through it, right, when we knew absolutely nothing, but happy to provide definitions. So perimenopause are the years before menopause. They can last anywhere from a couple of months to 14.
plus years, I was actually in perimenopause for 14 years total. Could be even more, but from what I remember, 14 years total, 11 of which I had no idea. So if we think back to that, right, 11 out of the 14 years I thought I was going crazy. I was like, what is happening to my body? would ask other people around me, it's like, are you experiencing this? And are you, and they're like, nope, nope, don't know what you're talking about. So nowadays I'm so happy to see that women are actually, understand, like they know the word perimenopause, they're understanding it a little bit better.
And it's generally about a decade before we go into menopause. Menopause is once you've gone 12 months or 365 days without a cycle. So that's natural menopause. And everything after that. So menopause is technically considered one day. Everything after that is considered post-menopause. But for, and I say this in the book, but for really, for me from a definition standpoint, there should really only be perimenopause and menopause because post-menopause becomes a little confusing for people.
Especially when I'm speaking to people and they're asking me what I do and I tell them and they're like, I'm way past that. And the thing is, is that we're never way past it, as you know, right? Like we're never way past menopause because once we go into menopause, we're in menopause for the rest of our life. So it's really important now that we focus on nutrition, lifestyle, supplements, like understanding what's happening to our body because we're going to live anywhere from, you know, a third to half our life in this stage of life.
Kim Vopni (06:18.382)
Yeah, yeah, so important. And I remember having, this isn't about me, but just I remember I wanna ask about symptoms. And at the time I had, I had.
weird rashes, had swollen lips, had heart palpitations, some of which if I look at the, sorry there's big noise in the background here, but sometimes I remember looking at the list thinking, okay, yes, that was normal, that was normal, and then other things were strange. However, what I have seen is this list of common perimenopause symptoms has actually grown to, last time I checked it was like 80 something, but I believe now it's over 100 different things. Itchy ears is another one.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (06:47.655)
there.
Kim Vopni (07:00.464)
So what are some of the more, we know some of the more common, so maybe highlight a few of those, but what are some of the other less common that would be on that list?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (07:09.714)
Absolutely. So here's what I'm going to say about the symptoms. many years ago, I was at a party with my husband and I bumped into an old friend and we were catching up and she had asked me what I was doing and asked her what she was doing and she told me she was creating an app for menopause symptoms. And I was like, wow, menopause symptoms. Like, don't you actually have to have a lot of symptoms to have an app for it? And she was like, oh, Andrea, there's so many symptoms. There's like 34 to 40.
So the way my brain works, Kim, is like, I'm very analytical, very data-driven. So I went home, I created this document and I started tracking all the symptoms, 34, 40 cents. Okay, what are they? And I started looking in medical journals. I started listening to what my friends were saying, what people were saying, like looking everywhere I possibly could online, on social media, what were people talking about when it came to symptoms? And I quickly learned that there were over 85 of them. So for the longest time, I would say there are 85 plus signs and symptoms of menopause. And then in 2022,
I was like, you know what, I think we should actually really find out how many there are. So I decided to create the first, our first survey ever, which is our signs and symptoms survey. It now has over 5,200 responses. And we were published in the journal Menopause in 2024 for having, so we know now that there are 103 plus symptoms of perimenopause and menopause. So the old, it's more outdated now, the 34 to 40, there are 103 plus according to our published research. And
Kim Vopni (08:04.376)
You
Kim Vopni (08:12.236)
Wow.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (08:28.774)
the most common ones. So we know from our research and again, the 5200 women. So it's a massive sample in terms of the women who responded to it. So the number one symptom is fatigue across the board. Over 70 % of women are experiencing fatigue. Brain fog is number two. Number three is sleep issues. And then we've got memory problems and we've got anxiety and then the list goes on and on. And in fact, what's interesting is that hot flashes come in at number 10. But hot flashes are the most synonymous
with menopause, right? But it actually comes in at number 10. It is still in the top 10, but it comes in number 10 in terms of the most popular ones. Other ones are lack of concentration, joint pain. Number six is actually loss of libido. Another survey that I was published in last year in December of 2025 is sex drive and libido for women in perimenopause and menopause. So they're, and joint pain. Those are the top 10.
Kim Vopni (09:22.434)
Yeah, where does vaginal dryness fall in your survey?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (09:26.226)
Ooh, I have to pull up my list of the, don't have all 103 memorized. I have to memorize everything. It's actually chapter two of my book, but I have to find it on the list, it's not in front of me, but I will find that for you. I will get you the list. It's not in the, you know what? It's gonna bother me now. I actually, here, hold on, I got it, I got it. Let's find vaginal dryness.
Kim Vopni (09:31.308)
Hahaha
Kim Vopni (09:40.578)
Yeah, don't worry, that's totally fine.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (09:53.691)
I am looking, I am looking. So we've got, actually, let me read you the actual list so it might probably a little bit better. So we've got the top 10 that I said. So fatigue, brain fog, sleep issues, memory loss, anxiety, loss of libido, lack of concentration, joint pain. Then we've got lack of, you know what? Sorry, can I stop you for a second? If mind, I totally got, like, I didn't have the list in front of me and I apologize. Let me, you can edit it, right? Okay.
Kim Vopni (10:13.614)
Yeah, of course.
Kim Vopni (10:17.742)
It's okay, it's all good.
yeah, yeah, absolutely. Don't worry. All good.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (10:22.852)
Okay, me a Vaginal dryness here is number 39, but give me a second, okay? I wanna just get you the most updated information, cause I don't want it. So hold on a second, just give me one second.
And then could start with where does vaginal dryness? Okay, sorry. I should have asked you.
Kim Vopni (10:36.846)
Yeah, yeah. No, no, all good. Well, I kind of blindsided you there, so. I thought it was actually gonna be close to the top 10 because I know with Shirley, we are who I think you know, hers was, that was one of the top things in her group when she first started it, but anyway, it's all good.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (10:43.931)
Yeah, it's OK.
It's not.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (10:50.512)
R-
Andrea Donsky, RHN (10:55.442)
So yeah, no, it's not. It's not in the top 10. It's actually 40 % of women. It's high up here, but it's not number one here. Sorry, number 10 here. is insomnia, tingling, vaginal dryness. We're at 38.9. So it's 39%. It's like number 27. So it's in the top 30. it's 27. So what do we want me to say just like it's in the top 30?
Kim Vopni (11:00.076)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (11:09.197)
Okay.
Kim Vopni (11:14.476)
Yeah, okay, so I'll ask the question again.
Kim Vopni (11:21.292)
Yeah. Where does vaginal dryness fall on that list? sorry. Yeah. Where does vaginal dryness fall on that list?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (11:23.794)
Sorry, sorry, hold on.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (11:30.674)
It actually falls at number 27. it's, yeah, about 40 % of women in perimenopause and menopause experience it. I was one of them. It was awful.
Kim Vopni (11:40.214)
Yeah, it's common. And it's one of those things that I say, it's some of the signs and symptoms will get better with time. You know, as you go through the transition, now you're on the other side, some of them will improve. Vaginal dryness is usually one of the ones that gets worse. So if you were to re-survey these people five to 10 years post, usually that number is upwards of 80 % of people are dealing with it. But not as common, but still 40 % is a lot in perimenopause. It is something we need to talk about.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (12:07.962)
And you know, it's an interesting part of my story, actually, because when, so I had PCOS and I was never going to have a regular cycle growing up. And then when I was about 49, I went a year without a cycle, without a period. And then I ended up getting, having a little bit of bleeding and it was so, like, I was so itchy. I thought I had a yeast infection or like for the longest time. And then eventually it ended up going away.
And then a year later at 50, I went again the whole year without a period and then I had some bleeding about a year later. And again, that crazy feeling, like Kim, I couldn't leave my house. Like I literally thought I was, like I couldn't walk, I couldn't do anything. like it sounds so like gross, but like I literally just wanted to like scratch like nonstop. It was so itchy and uncomfortable.
Kim Vopni (12:57.793)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (13:00.54)
So I ended up calling my doctor, my gynecologist and I'm like, I need to come get checked out because I don't know, am I in menopause? Am I not? Like what's going on? And she ended up telling me that I had vaginal dryness, like an extreme case of vaginal dryness. And had I known the year before, so now I'm like, well, wait a minute, was it vaginal dryness the year before too? Like I actually don't know if I went into menopause at 49 or 50 because of the vaginal dryness. So looking back now, like it plays a massive role in my story of...
going into menopause because I wish I understood vaginal dryness back then. Because if I did and I had done something about it, my story might have looked very different.
Kim Vopni (13:31.181)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (13:35.669)
Yeah. I want to circle back to your main topics of nutrition, but something that you had highlighted as being an important part of your story now that we're kind of talking about our vulva vaginal health is the pelvic health component. What was your experience from a pelvic health and what are you currently doing from a pelvic health perspective now?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (13:54.077)
So I'm the biggest fan of pelvic health, pelvic floor therapist. Like I actually was just at mine this morning. And I go periodically because it's helped me so much. So for me, it's actually tied into my musculoskeletal symptoms. And so recently, so I was playing pickleball and two weeks ago I woke up the next morning and I had a really bad pain in my knee, the back of my knee and the front of my knee. So I kind of was like,
Kim Vopni (14:00.448)
Yeah.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (14:23.29)
And I didn't feel anything when I was at Pickleball. And then I was like, I guess maybe like I did something. So I let a week go. It was still hurting me. And I was doing like castor oil packs, magnesium oil, everything that I normally do to help things get better. And it wasn't working. then it was getting better, but it wasn't fully better. And my body heals really quickly. And I'm like, what is going on? And then I was doing an interview this week and we were talking about pelvic health. And then I was like, wait a second.
maybe my pain in my knee is actually due to something else and not my actual knee. So I ended up going to my chiropractor yesterday. She actually specializes in sports medicine. So she did an assessment and she said, it's actually not your knee. It's your piriformis muscle. Am I saying piriformis? Am I saying that right? Okay, the piriformis muscle and my hamstring. So she said that she did some work on me and I was feeling a little bit better. And then I was like, I actually need to go to my pelvic floor therapist because it might
Kim Vopni (15:06.3)
piriformis, yep, yep.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (15:19.666)
piriformis muscle, guess in like maybe a couple of years ago, it had hurt me as well and she helped the pain go away because we worked internally and I was like, I'm gonna work that along with my chiropractor and today I'm feeling so much better. The pain's there still a little bit but I'm obviously gonna give it a few days but I was like.
Kim Vopni (15:36.44)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (15:39.35)
I even said to my pelvic floor therapist this morning because as she was working on me, I'm like, ow, ow, ow. Like it was painful, but I'm like, but keep going because I wanted to actually help. And she said, yeah, it's your, it's your actual, muscles, right? In your glute and then your hamstrings. it like, it's amazing. It's really magic as you know, like for me, I'm like the biggest fan.
Kim Vopni (15:54.659)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, me too. It's all connected, right?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (15:59.344)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (16:02.026)
It's similar to when we think about nourishing. There's so many elements. It's not just about this particular nutrient or this type of quote unquote healthy food. It's about all the different ways we nourish ourselves and the musculoskeletal system, the pelvic floor is skeletal muscle. It's bony scaffolding. It's part of that system. It's just we think partly because the way maybe our medical system is compartmentalized. We think of things in compartments, silos, and we don't think of it as
Andrea Donsky, RHN (16:18.128)
Yes.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (16:29.062)
silos. Yes.
Kim Vopni (16:31.98)
whole body or a whole system and that the pelvis could potentially be part of the story of knee pain or back pain or hip pain or you know all the things and and so often it is the missing link for people.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (16:45.074)
And when I was doing that interview for my podcast yesterday, I was like, it kind of clicked for me. And I'm like, wait a minute, pelvic floor is connected to the musculoskeletal system. And I'm like, but I never put the two together. And then I was like, wait, I'm a perfect example of how it's all connecting together and doing different. So imagine how many women who have certain things. And if it is due to other things, let's say not the knee itself or whatever knee pain or whatever type of pain they're experiencing, that it can help them.
right? Just by experimenting with different types of therapies. So yeah, huge, huge realization for me that just happened yesterday. Everything happens for a reason. We're talking today. So I was like, Oh, can contribute this to our conversation. Right? Because I'm a good example of how it actually helps. It's helping me.
Kim Vopni (17:21.26)
Yep, yep, yep.
Kim Vopni (17:27.978)
Yeah, yeah. So coming back to that list, the top three, so there was sleep, fatigue, and cog mental, like, yeah.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (17:38.718)
Fatigue, brain fog, sleep, top three.
Kim Vopni (17:40.877)
Yeah, okay, and.
Of course, I'll go back to the pelvis. I don't want to hang out there, but that's going to influence your pelvic floor and your symptoms that you have as well. again, whole body symptoms. So that is one of the signs and symptoms. It's also something that could be contributing to some of the other signs and symptoms that we have. So the poor sleep could be creating the fatigue, is creating the mental. What are your recommendations for people who maybe because on your list, that was the top three. When you start experiencing those, how do you recommend people
Andrea Donsky, RHN (18:01.892)
Absolutely.
Kim Vopni (18:12.944)
root cause investigate and what are some of the support practices that they could do from a nourishment perspective.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (18:21.808)
Yeah, I mean, great question. so my book literally has different chapters on the different ways that you can help yourself. Like there's a whole chapter on sleep. There's a whole chapter on the nervous system and cortisol and stress. There's a whole chapter on why we gain weight in perimenopause and menopause, what we can do. And then there's three chapters on nutrition. We've got vitamins, we've got minerals, we've got our, our, our balance protocol is how do we look at eating and nourishing ourselves as we go into this phase of life?
Kim Vopni (18:29.056)
Amazing.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (18:49.19)
We have a whole chapter on exercise. we really break it down into the different ways and different things that we want to be looking at now that we're in perimenopause and menopause. So for me, as a nutritionist and having been one for more than 20 years, I always say I like to start there. I like to start the foundation with our food because our food really, first of all, we can we want to look at at how we're eating because that will affect every other part of our body. And we can't even if you're taking supplements, you can't out supplement
for nutrition. Like we really want that as a foundation. Nutrition, lifestyle, how we're managing stress, which, you know, I always say this, I'm like, so just manage your stress. And I laugh because I'm like, yeah, okay, like it's that easy, right, for us to manage stress. But I provide a lot of tips and I explain a lot in the book as to why things are happening to us now. But in our nutrition chapter, which is where I like to, you know, it's
For me, Chapter 11 is where I like to start from the nutrition standpoint is we've got our balanced blueprint. So what are the main things that we want to look at now that we're in this phase of life and how can we help nourish ourselves starting with our food? So things like balancing blood sugar. So balance stands for balancing blood sugar, adding more fiber to our diet, loading up on protein, adding good quality fats. I talk a lot about fats and the type of fats that we're getting.
nurturing our digestion. I have whole chapter, chapter four on digestion. What's happening to our digestive system now. And then C stands for choosing more plants and then E ensuring we're hydrated because hydration plays a huge role. And I'm sure you talk a lot about that when it comes to pelvic floor health. Yeah, you're nodding. like, yep, yep. Being hydrated is massive, right? Because if we're not hydrated, it can affect our brain or make us.
Kim Vopni (20:24.865)
Yep.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (20:32.29)
know, fatigue could be as a result of not being hydrated and a lot of other things. So to me, those are the that's our our protocol as to what do we want to be focusing on and that actually relates to every other chapter in the book.
Kim Vopni (20:44.749)
Yeah, I love that acronym. And yes, I was like, yep, yep, check, check, check. Yeah, so many people in my community are dehydrated because they're afraid of leaking. They're afraid of having an urge. They're afraid of not finding a bathroom. So they restrict their fluid thinking that's going to help. It doesn't, but that's it's logical to think that. And then the other.
result is they're also now constipated, which often then contributes to some of the urinary symptoms. so hydration is something that I think is, it's another topic that it gets talked about a little bit. There's lots of electrolytes. And so people think of electrolytes as being the solution. I agree they might play a role, but there's not enough education, I think, around, really, I don't think there's enough education around our bodies. We should in school be getting a lot more education about how we run these vehicles we live in, right? These systems.
Thanks.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (21:38.131)
100 % and it amazes me because I remember when I started studying menopause like almost 10 years ago and I looked at my daughter's like I looked at her school curriculum and they learn about puberty but in grade five but they don't learn about perimenopause and menopause and I had asked their teacher about it and they're like yeah no we don't even go there but to me it's so important like even at least in high school think of this Kim I think about this a lot imagine in high school when we have teenagers
and relationships with their parents. And in many cases, like for me, I had a baby at 41. So my daughters were going through puberty, my little one's going through puberty when I was going through menopause. So everything kind of overlaps. And you imagine the relationships, the understanding that can be prevented, can be discussed, talked about, open dialogue, just by our children understanding and learning about it in school. And then
If that's where, like many of us, we're learning about it online, but if that's where we're getting information from, our kids are coming home, talking about it, mom, maybe, you maybe you're going through perimenopause or maybe you're in menopause, maybe you want to like, whatever it is, like having that vocabulary on both sides to understand it, I just feel like it would be such, it would be so incredible just from a relationship standpoint on its own.
Kim Vopni (22:56.843)
Yeah.
Yeah, and I feel exactly the same way and I say it that exact same message from a pelvic health. Let's throw in the pelvic health conversation in there. It's not normal to have painful sex. You want to, you know, be able to have pleasure. Here's things that interfere. Here's the professionals pelvic floor PTs that can help you along the way. So I wholeheartedly agree. So you start with nutrition. So you mentioned the hydration, all the things from the balance perspective and indirectly just by making those changes that can help address many of the other signs and symptoms that would be on the list.
Lifestyle wise, we, so let's say we've covered off what we're now adding in, what we've removed, what we're now hydrated, what would you say from a lifestyle perspective?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (23:40.603)
Yeah, so chapter six talks all about the nervous system. this is probably so I have research that was published again. This was in twenty twenty four of December twenty twenty four in the journal Menopause. And we looked at stress and anxiety. So actually it was a little bit about the sleep and then it kind of went into the stress and anxiety. So we wanted to understand what's happening to us now. We know that we're more stressed now, but how many of us are? So we found out that 66 percent of us are more stressed now than we were before.
and we're less able to cope with it. So what are some things that we could do that can help us, that can help to bring down those levels of stress? So I provide a ton of tips in that chapter, but some of the things we wanna look at is, and when we asked our community, what are some of the things that you're doing, the number one thing that women said they were doing to help manage their stress was watching a funny movie or show. And I totally understand that.
Because at the end of the day, I'm like, I just want to like decompress. I just want to sit down. And my mom, my mom and I talk about it all the time. She's now watching Everwood. She had never heard about it from 2002. She's like, it's the best show. And it's like, does not spike my cortisol. So we laugh about that. So watching a funny movie or a TV show, meditation, exercise is another really big one. So anything that's going to help us to relax, you know, to trigger that parasympathetic nervous system, going for walks in nature.
Kim Vopni (24:43.564)
You
Andrea Donsky, RHN (25:01.444)
Huge, right? Research around that in terms of regulating or lowering cortisol. Spending time with people you love. Staying away maybe, maybe not watching the news so much if that stresses you especially before bed. I know me, one of the things that I can't do anymore, Kim, and I'd love to hear your opinion on this. I cannot watch movies anymore that are like super stressful. I just can't. Like I have, I literally get up and walk out of the movie. Like I cannot do, my nervous system cannot take it anymore. I'm really trying to focus on shows that
relax me. Like my son was saying the other day, he loves Breaking Bad. He's like, mom, you have to watch Breaking Bad. Cause I just got my book edits in. I'm like, okay, I'm to go back to like my nightly routine of watching my shows. And he's like, you should watch Breaking Bad. So I watched a couple of episodes, great show, but it was stressing me out. I was getting like, I felt like my cortisol was rising. And I'm like, I cannot do this. So my mom's like, go watch Everwood. I'm like, okay. So I started watching Everwood and I love it. I'm like.
Kim Vopni (25:53.677)
You
Andrea Donsky, RHN (25:55.763)
All right, mom, I found a show. Like, it's fantastic. I don't know if you've ever seen it, but anyways, great show. But just anything that's just going to help to relax you and not spike those cortisol levels is going to make a difference. And the reason why I say that too is if we go to my sleep research that was published, we know that the three main reasons we are not sleeping well in perimenopause and menopause. Number one is because we're waking up between 2 and 4 a.m. Number two, because we're going to the bathroom a lot. This is your area.
And number three is because of night sweats. So those are the top three reasons. So what I wanted to figure out was, okay, we know the waking up between two and four a.m. My initial instinct was, cortisol is rising at the wrong time, but I couldn't prove it, my hypothesis in that survey. So we ended up proving it in the anxiety survey. And 67 % of women said they're waking up between two and four a.m. due to stress-related reasons. So managing stress, really important.
doing what we can to help us not go to the bathroom during the night, really important because we know sleep is imperative in this phase of life. So it's to me like, that's chapter seven of a whole chapter on sleep and how to get a better night's sleep. So for me, once we're focusing on all of that, and it really is a synergistic, it's not just about doing one thing, right? And this is where it's really important to understand, even if you're on hormones, even if you're taking menopause hormone therapy, like,
you could still look at, you should still look at nutrition and lifestyle and nutrients that you're getting along with whatever it is you're doing to help you with your symptoms. But like I said, for me, the foundation is nutrition, lifestyle, and certain supplements.
Kim Vopni (27:35.052)
Yeah. And it's funny, like what I see and hear in my community a lot is I will come to them with all of these, I call them opportunities or options.
They see it as a to-do list or all the things that they aren't doing. So when you say, you know, it's not just one thing. We have to look at lifestyle. We have to look at sleep. We have to look at nutrition. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I find though, because we haven't received that information earlier in life and now all of a sudden we are we're in a state of overwhelm already and now we have to do all the research ourselves. We have to read books. We have to listen to podcasts. It can also that in and of itself create stress and overwhelm for people.
and then you have the hormone conversation and then it's like, biodefinal versus non-biodefinal. How do I find a doctor? You know what I mean? gets to the point where just, people can freeze because of that overwhelm as well, which to our point, if we educate earlier in life, we are then setting people up. And I'm seeing that happen. I've been doing this for 21 years, preaching pelvic health. I started in the prenatal, postpartum. I now, for the majority of people,
Andrea Donsky, RHN (28:23.704)
I get so confused.
Kim Vopni (28:47.847)
Most people I ask have seen a pelvic floor physical therapist. They know what that is. It's been part of their prenatal planning. The message has kind of gotten out there. Now we have the work to do in the perimenopause menopause, which the conversation around menopause is helping increase that awareness. But I'm hoping that we will see that same shift happen. So younger people are now, to your point as well, our daughters and their friends and other people will be more informed. Anyway, that was just a point I wanted to make.
want to come back to when you said in your study, people were saying they're dealing with a lot of stress, anxiety, and they're less likely to cope. What are the reasons that you, for the more stress and anxiety and the less likely to be able to cope?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (29:30.994)
Hello.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (29:34.461)
So interestingly enough, just being a woman alone makes us more prone to get more anxiety and stress. there's other things like, for example, where many of us who are taking care of, excuse me, sorry, I'm gonna start again. For many of us, we're taking care of families, we're taking care of, like even as GenXers now, we're the sandwich generation, we're taking care of our parents, we're managing households, many of us are working outside of the home, caregivers.
Kim Vopni (29:37.717)
Yeah.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (30:02.554)
So there's so many different reasons that are contributing to it. And then adding on top of that hormones, environmental things. So like, it's kind of like this bombardment of things that are, you know, that are contributing to our feeling of stress and anxiety. And to go to, to go to your point or to comment on your point about the overwhelm, about, yes, there's a lot we need to be learning. That's why I wrote this book, because even for me, and I'm very honest in the book about it. And I like, there's so much information out there.
how do we know what we should be doing? Like, do this, you should, you should, you should. It's like, there are no shoulds. It's here's the information, do what you want with it. At the end of the day, you're the captain of your own ship. It's your body. Do what feels right for you. So whether someone tells you you should do this or you should eat like that or you should, it doesn't matter. What is right for you and your bottle, this vessel that you are living in? And that's why I've made it so simple in my book to be like, okay, here are the basic
principles. Do what you want with it. Take what you want with it. I just want you to know my MO is I want you to understand why you're doing something. I want you to understand why when I say look at needing more protein, why does that matter now? And I want you to because because when we know to your point when we're educated and we're taught about this when we're younger, then we're able to empower ourselves. To me, it's empowering to understand what's happening so that we can make the changes we need to make.
And that's why, and that's what my book does. It does it in an easy way, very, you know, very reader friendly. And it provides a ton of tips that you can pick and choose what you want to do. It's not, do not do everything because first of all, that is overwhelming. Baby steps, baby steps, even if it means just getting a little bit more protein than you're currently getting. That's awesome. Because we don't want to overwhelm ourselves too, too much because it can be all consuming.
Kim Vopni (31:44.269)
Yes.
Kim Vopni (31:51.735)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (31:58.119)
but I don't want it to be. I just want you to take what you need, the little tidbits. You don't even have to read the book all at once. Start just on the nutrition chapter. That's good enough, right? And keep it on your nightside table and then go back to it when you're ready to learn about sleep or to find out some tips about sleep.
Kim Vopni (32:12.343)
Yep. Yeah. You mentioned protein. That of course is a topic that is everybody's telling you like there's now there's protein everything. Protein at Starbucks now. You can have protein added to your coffee. Like it's kind of ridiculous in the sense I do agree with more protein but I don't want to have all the processed stuff added to everything. Why is protein important? You mentioned wanting people to understand which I wholeheartedly agree.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (32:24.252)
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (32:37.063)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (32:37.599)
you know, why am I doing this and why is it important? And that can help solidify a practice or making an effort. Why is it important to have more protein?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (32:45.382)
So there's few reasons or many reasons. So number one, it's great for brain health because it helps to to satiate us. So protein, when we're eating more protein at a meal, it helps to satiate us. It releases hormones that help us to make us feel full. And when we're full, we will most likely or less likely reach for sugary foods throughout the day. So it helps with balancing that blood sugar. It also helps because it gives us energy.
And it also helps with, it helps with our brain health, but it also helps with muscles and like, because we're more prone to sarcopenia now, it helps to build muscles, muscle strength. So, you know, for me, focusing on that protein and to your point, by the way, when in the chapter, we're so like, it's funny that you say that because it's like, everybody's like, more protein and have a ton of it. Well, first of all, too much of anything isn't good either. And we have a formula in the book.
that we say, okay, so if you're in perimenopause and menopause and you're 140 pounds or less, we want you to look for 20 to 25 grams of protein per meal, assuming three meals a day. Foundation, starting point. If you're over 140 pounds, then you wanna look at 25 to 30 grams of protein a day. Again, assuming three meals a day, starting point. And then from there, you can add on based on how active you are, what are your goals, how tall are you.
So there's different things that you can add in and then you can use a protein calculator, like a macro calculator to figure out what's right for your body. But we looked at all the research and it's all over the place in terms of how much protein we should be getting. Some people say a ton, some people say less. So we literally looked at all the different research, put it together and we're like, okay, for me as a nutritionist and my co-author Lisa, who's a nutritionist as well for over 25 years, we're like, this feels right for us. We're both in menopause.
And we were like, this is the formula that feels right for us to recommend to the women who are reading this book.
Kim Vopni (34:39.563)
Yeah. You mentioned the term sarcopenia. For those that aren't familiar with that term, if you've listened to me, you know it. But for those who are listening for the first time, what does sarcopenia mean and why are we concerned with that?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (34:49.478)
Muscle loss. Yeah, muscle loss because we're more prone to losing muscle as we go into perimenopause and menopause. and muscle is important for so many different things, including like we now know that it's important for longevity, brain health. Like there was a great study that looked at brain health and your quads, how strong your quads are, right? Grip strength, it's tied into longevity. It's tied into just everyday function.
How you getting in and out of your car? Are you able to get up off of the floor? Are you able to hold your grandkids if you have grandkids, right? Are you able to hold your grocery bags and bring them into the house? So all little things like that plays into our quality of life. So we look now, you know, in the past, we looked at, I know someone like, I know for me, like as a Gen Xer, I would never touch a weight. Like I remember like, this is like in the eighties, right? I go to the gym and I'm on the treadmill and I'm going forever and doing my like.
Kim Vopni (35:36.727)
you
Andrea Donsky, RHN (35:42.353)
high intensity workouts and then it comes to doing going to the weight room and I'm like, I'm staying away from there because I don't want to look like the Hulk. And now I'm like, I can't even get enough of it because our body's breaking down bone more muscle more than it is building it at this point. It's also important by the way, protein for bone health. So to me, I'm like, it's so important that we look at strength training and we look at, you know, building those muscles because it helps with this next chapter of our life in terms of living a good quality life.
And just to give you one example, and it's a silly example, but I give it because it's kind of shown my progress over the years. And from someone who wouldn't touch a weight to now being obsessed with going to the gym and lifting weights, when I travel, I can never lift my carry-on suitcase over my head into the carry, into the overhead bin. Like I just couldn't do it. I have to ask somebody around me, can you help me? Can you help me lift it? Or can you do it for me? And now when I go on the airplane, I go on an airplane, I'm like, I do it, I'm with.
I'm like, and I put it in. have like this big smile on my face and people probably think I'm like, what is her problem? like me, I'm like, I'm so proud of myself. It feels so good because I'm like, it's strong and I'm being able, I'm like doing something that is helping my body feel strong. And I think for me, it's nourishing our bodies, right? Feeling strong with our muscles, but also our brain, our mindset. It kind of has this overall encompassing strength feeling of empowerment.
Kim Vopni (36:37.513)
You
Kim Vopni (36:41.708)
It's a big deal.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (37:05.062)
that is all tied in together, like how we're eating, how we're exercising, how we're strengthening those muscles that we're more prone to breaking down quicker than building up. So for me, all of that is super important and ties in together to how we can feel our best in this phase of life.
Kim Vopni (37:20.192)
Yeah. I have two more questions for you. One, I want to come back to the waking up at night. said you in your anxiety, you were able to highlight that it was cortisol related, the waking between two and four. What about, mean, blood sugar I know is tied in, but can you maybe talk about what is that inappropriate cortisol rise? Why is that happening? Is it blood sugar related? Is it related to something else and what can people do about it?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (37:47.837)
So it could be a lot of different reasons. So different reasons why we're waking up throughout the night. I tend to focus on the two to four a.m. wake up time, which is generally a cortisol thing, but it could absolutely be blood sugar. So when our blood sugar goes high or even in some cases too low, it could actually make us go to the bathroom because it's our body's way of regulating it, especially with high blood sugar. Our body tries to regulate it, so we'll end up going to pee. Vasopressin also plays a role.
which is an antidiuretic hormone, right? So it tends to decrease as we go into perimenopause and menopause. That's another reason maybe we can't, and again, this is all really your area that you talk about a lot, but you know, maybe why we're going to the bathroom during the night. But in terms of helping us with our cortisol and helping us to be able to sleep through the night so that we're not waking up, things like
meditation before bed, things like having some type of nightly routine, going to bed at the same time. Maybe it's taking a bath, putting some essential oils into a bath. Maybe it's journaling. Maybe it's doing something that helps your body to relax, taking magnesium. You know, like taking things that can help you feel better, our sleep bus, our amorphous sleep bus is amazing, right? You take it in combination with our magnesium. things that are going to help you to help you to relax, shut off your brain so that you could sleep better through the night is going to be critical.
I actually in chapter seven in my sleep protocol, it's actually called REST protocol, R-E-S-T, which stands for routine environment support and technology. So I provide different ways to help you get that better night's sleep. But it's really important that we do what we can because we know stress and anxiety is the number one reason we're waking up during the night. Whatever we can do to relax ourselves before bed is key. And one of the things that I...
Kim Vopni (39:15.223)
Love it.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (39:34.149)
try to share with people because this is something that I did myself. So you were talking before about muscles and how the pelvic floor is our muscles, right? Everything in our body, right? Our muscles, our brain is a muscle, right? So when we wake up during the night, and I was guilty of this, my brain and for many of us starts to ruminate. It starts to go, right? So we wake up, we're like, it's 3 a.m., 3.30. my God, my to-do list. What do I have to do tomorrow? who did I forget to call? How many emails did I not send out? Like right away, I had that argument with somebody. Like it starts to go.
Kim Vopni (39:59.054)
You
Andrea Donsky, RHN (40:03.33)
And what I recommend is before it even starts. So you wake up, do not let it start. Train your muscle, train your brain to just be like, okay, I shouldn't be doing that. If I even start now, it'll just snowball from here. Stop it before it starts. Say I'll deal with it in the morning because nothing's going to come of it if I deal with it now and I'm up for the next two hours and then I'm exhausted the next day, which even just makes things even worse. So stop it in its tracks. And there's an amazing mantra.
that I say, it's called ho'oponopono. I don't know if you ever heard of it. It's, okay, I love it. I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me and thank you. And literally just keep repeating it over and over again and you will fall back asleep. Like obviously there's other things that can help as well, but saying something like stopping your brain, training your muscle, your brain to not go there in the first place can be very helpful. And it takes time, it's not easy, but once you're able to do that.
Kim Vopni (40:35.595)
Mm, I have, yeah.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (40:58.342)
Hopefully you can fall back asleep with, if you need extra aids, like I said, with some supplements or other things, maybe it's meditation, maybe it's sound baths, anything that can help you relax before bed can be very beneficial. Even like deep breathing is amazing before bed, something that's gonna stimulate your parasympathetic nervous system just to like, you know, so that you can get that good night's sleep.
Kim Vopni (41:19.213)
The last question I have for you is if you think about your perimenopause journey and the struggles, what was maybe the biggest help?
Maybe the top two things you mentioned, you added strength training, maybe that was your help. I can say for me, it was removing alcohol. Not being a big drinker, I would have maybe one or two glasses of wine a week. I thought like, how could it be alcohol? But as soon as I removed it completely, it was the single biggest significant, most significant change and help for me. What would you say it was for you?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (41:55.09)
Hmm, so many things. That's great alcohol for sure, by the way. Like I can't even do, I can't even have a sip because then I'm like right into hot flash mode and my sleep is ruined for the night. Like I just can't do alcohol anymore at all. Same with chocolate before bed. Can't do it. Right? Oh my gosh, like, and that's not something that a lot of people talk about because that was like my end of one research, but I'm so happy to hear that that's you too. Like, right, don't talk about
Kim Vopni (42:04.161)
Yeah, same.
Kim Vopni (42:10.039)
Same, same. I was guilty of that last night.
Kim Vopni (42:19.725)
No, I'm the same. And it wasn't even like before bed. It was kind of around six o'clock-ish right after I had some dinner. And it wasn't even that much. But if I have anything, it's crazy. Yeah, interesting.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (42:29.394)
Yeah, can't even do it. Can't even do the chocolate before bed. I would say for me, that helped me the most. would say, obviously, definitely exercise. I would say probably supplements helped me the most in terms of, because I was already, like my nutrition, I was already doing what I was doing with nutrition. I was already doing what I was doing with exercise. The thing that changed for me is when, especially when I had that major, like my, that hot flash that first time, it went away. They went away and then they came back probably about six months later and they were like, my gosh, they came back super strong.
Kim Vopni (42:39.991)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (42:52.983)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (42:58.593)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (42:59.024)
I couldn't function, Kim. Like when I tell you I couldn't function, I was lying on the couch. I looked at my husband and I said, I cannot go on like this. Like if this is my life for the rest of my life, it's just not happening. Like I can't do this. And that's when I decided to start Morphous. That's when I decided to go down the rabbit holes. Like I've like, okay, I'm going to do something to help myself so I can help other women. And my goal at that time was to really tackle the hot flashes because that was...
Like I didn't realize that the mood swings and the weight gain, the 20 pounds that I had gained and the sleepless nights, I didn't even realize at that point that they were all on the phantom smells and the itchy ears, that they were all due to perimenopause. I didn't know that. So what I did know was my huff lashes were so debilitating and my night sweats that if I didn't find a solution, I didn't even know what I was going to do. Like it was so brutal, right? So that led me to look for supplements.
Kim Vopni (43:48.684)
Yeah.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (43:53.126)
that can help me. And this was way before the WHOI study kind of coming around and, you know, hormones coming around to what they are today. So I was like, okay, I'm going to find a solution. And that's what I did. I found solutions through supplements, which is why I started Morphous because I was like, Morphous is my supplement line. And I was like, amazing. I found a solution for me. And now I'm going to offer these solutions to everyone else. So I would say that's probably the biggest thing that helped me were the supplements. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (43:56.855)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Vopni (44:06.657)
Yeah, Morphis is your supplement line. Yeah.
Kim Vopni (44:18.859)
Yeah, yeah. And you have an amazing line. I love the research. You are so evidence informed. Amazing, amazing. And you list it all on your site. So it's extraordinary. And I'll have the links to that below. Where can people find you, purchase your book, learn more about all the amazing things that you do?
Andrea Donsky, RHN (44:28.114)
Anything.
Thank you.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (44:37.772)
Thank you. So first of all, you could buy the book everywhere, Amazon, can buy them at any any bookstore, anywhere that you shop for books are available everywhere. You can go to my website, which is nourishing menopause book.com. And you can also find out at we are morphous.com. They have our website there as well. and social media, I'm big on TikTok. I love TikTok. That's kind of where I hang out these days. I love TikTok, Andrew Donsky. And then obviously on Instagram at we are more fits and Andrew Donsky and all the social media.
Kim Vopni (44:59.149)
Yeah.
Kim Vopni (45:06.7)
Yeah, and all those links will be below. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, for writing this book, for creating an amazing line of supplements. You are amazing. I appreciate it so much. You're welcome.
Andrea Donsky, RHN (45:16.262)
Thank you, Kim, and thank you for having me.
